African ethno sabre for coments

fearn · 24th August 2008, 03:59 AM

de nada, Fernando (that about exhausts my Spanish, too).

I agree, it's all subjective, without some information of a tradition or comparable objects. Still, speculation's fun.

Glad you're enjoying the desert Jim. Hope those little song-doggies aren't keeping you up at night.

Best,

Fearn

Jim McDougall · 24th August 2008, 07:21 AM

Thanks Fearn and Fernando!
Well Fearn tomorrow bright and early we're headed north toward Grand Canyon, there are not many of these guys up there. Gotta admit I'll sorta miss the nightly serenade!

It really is beautiful down here, gonna miss that too.

All the best,
Jim

Tim Simmons · 30th August 2008, 11:34 AM

The Hornbill image fits with protective symbolism most often associated with swords. As I mentioned before it can be found on many artifacts usually conected to good human endevours. I am still without my PC so have been unable to follow this thread as I would like.

fernando · 30th August 2008, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

The Hornbill image fits with protective symbolism most often associated with swords. As I mentioned before it can be found on many artifacts usually conected to good human endevours. I am still without my PC so have been unable to follow this thread as I would like.

Hi Tim,
I am sorry for your computer still being unavailable; i hope you get it back soon.
I will allways wait for your usualy interesting and usefull material, as no other way it could be.
Let me tell you that so far, the creatures sugested to be represented in this sword pommel, comprise enough variety to open a Zoo. Between the members of this forum and opinnions gathered out there, i have: jackal, wild dog, hornbill, hooded cobra, crocodile, hyena, lizard, deer, gazelle, fox, dog, reptile, praying mantis, and even a skeptical "made this way deliberatly so that the owner can say it's whatever he wants it to be".
After i opened this thread, i have contacted cosmologists, anthropologists, travel agents in Africa and antique arms specialists, as well as other "ists".
The reason for my insistent search is that i haven't yet had an opinnion considered solid by the very person who issues it, nor i had a couple coinciding strong sugestions or decisive verdicts. I am as blank as i was when i started.
Exception made for the hornbill, proposed by you, Tim, with such firmness that makes me consider that must be the thing.
I will be expecting your further material, soon as your PC allows it.
Fernando

fernando · 2nd September 2008, 06:04 PM

Just look at the following coments, received from a guy that runs a gallery of African art, and who is also a collector:

This is a very nice sword, an interesting ethnographic piece. I'm not so sure about the origin, the metal work doesn't seem Dogon to me, but more a Mossi (Burkina) work. The form is very elegant, and the piece seems old (I would say 19th). The shape looks like an old French colonial period sword. The bird head at the pommel is certainly a hornbill (prominent eyes and a long beak). Anyway, a nice interesting piece. Dogon blacksmiths are not so good, except with iron works, so the pommel should have been done by a Mossi blacksmith.
Hope this will help.

No coments

.

Fernando

Jim McDougall · 2nd September 2008, 06:29 PM

Thats excellent Fernando, and I admire your tenacity! It seems that Tim was right about the hornbill (which does not surprise me with his knowledge on African art).
It seems interesting that the hornbill is so prevalent in representation in other ethnographic spheres also, and though I am not that familiar with Asian and Indonesian symbology, I recall that the hornbill is often mentioned with the 'mandau' and it seems some other weapons.

Interesting comments on the Mossi attribution also.

Best regards,
Jim

Tim Simmons · 2nd September 2008, 06:53 PM

You make me blush, just when I thought I had my roseasia under control.

2nd September 2008, 06:04 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Tim your'e the best Just look at the following coments, received from a guy that runs a gallery of African art, and who is also a collector: This is a very nice sword, an interesting ethnographic piece. I'm not so sure about the origin, the metal work doesn't seem Dogon to me, but more a Mossi (Burkina) work. The form is very elegant, and the piece seems old (I would say 19th). The shape looks like an old French colonial period sword. The bird head at the pommel is certainly a hornbill (prominent eyes and a long beak). Anyway, a nice interesting piece. Dogon blacksmiths are not so good, except with iron works, so the pommel should have been done by a Mossi blacksmith. Hope this will help. No coments . Fernando

24th August 2008, 03:59 AM	#1
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	de nada, Fernando (that about exhausts my Spanish, too). I agree, it's all subjective, without some information of a tradition or comparable objects. Still, speculation's fun. Glad you're enjoying the desert Jim. Hope those little song-doggies aren't keeping you up at night. Best, Fearn

24th August 2008, 07:21 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,214	Thanks Fearn and Fernando! Well Fearn tomorrow bright and early we're headed north toward Grand Canyon, there are not many of these guys up there. Gotta admit I'll sorta miss the nightly serenade! It really is beautiful down here, gonna miss that too. All the best, Jim

30th August 2008, 11:34 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,846	The Hornbill image fits with protective symbolism most often associated with swords. As I mentioned before it can be found on many artifacts usually conected to good human endevours. I am still without my PC so have been unable to follow this thread as I would like.

2nd September 2008, 06:29 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,214	Thats excellent Fernando, and I admire your tenacity! It seems that Tim was right about the hornbill (which does not surprise me with his knowledge on African art). It seems interesting that the hornbill is so prevalent in representation in other ethnographic spheres also, and though I am not that familiar with Asian and Indonesian symbology, I recall that the hornbill is often mentioned with the 'mandau' and it seems some other weapons. Interesting comments on the Mossi attribution also. Best regards, Jim

2nd September 2008, 06:53 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,846	You make me blush, just when I thought I had my roseasia under control.