Moro / Borneo hybrid ?

Royston · 14th August 2008, 04:03 PM

Ben

So far I have had no success getting the hilt off. I tried with a hot air gun on the blade near to the hilt and gentle tapping. Anyone got any better ideas?

I am now getting even more confused with the Borneo swords. The only real difference I can see between the first one that Ben calls a Langgai Tinggal and the Parang Nabur that is shown here is the Krowit.
Is this correct ?

I have looked through several of the old threads on this subject and still cannot differentiate between Langgai Tinggal, Jimpal and Parang Naibor.

Can anyone enlighten me further.

Regards
Royston

Battara · 15th August 2008, 07:09 PM

I have been told that this is Filipino, Batangas.

Nice upper rank piece - best of this I have seen with all that silver...

VVV · 16th August 2008, 09:12 AM

Here is a good summary of Shelford's classification of Dayak parang based on his research in Sarawak.
http://old.blades.free.fr/swords/day...ayak_intro.htm
There are however some mistakes in the tribe column but otherwise it's good to use for separating the different dayak parang.
The, so called, Parang Nabur sword of Stone's is an error based on a misreading of a description of a (Parang) Nyabor. That's the reason why neither that sword, nor the kampilan (also an error in Stone's as it's not a dayak sword), is among the swords in Shelford's classification.
Yours is from Philippines, not Borneo, as Jose brought up. And a top piece!

Michael

PS If you want more information on this it's all in the forum archives.

Battara · 16th August 2008, 05:58 PM

VVV, actually there may be a type of kampilan that was used by Illanum migrants in Borneo, also shown in Zonneveld.

VVV · 16th August 2008, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

VVV, actually there may be a type of kampilan that was used by Illanum migrants in Borneo, also shown in Zonneveld.

Of course there was. I have never doubted that the kampilan was used, and produced, in Borneo, Sulawesi and Timor among the Illanum migrants. There are a lot of evidence for that. But none for the kampilan being a Sea Dayak sword. Illanums are neither Sea Dayaks nor any other kind of Dayaks.
Shelford specifically classifies the Dayak parang in Sarawak. Not for instance the Moro swords or swords from other ethnic groups.

Michael

Maurice · 16th August 2008, 07:44 PM

Is there a good book which tells more about the Illanums? I find very little about them in the books I have, but I am very interested to learn more about them.

Regards,
Maurice

Battara · 17th August 2008, 03:52 AM

VVV, I now understand your point better - focus on the Sea Dayaks. Is it possible that they got kampilans from the Illanums?

Maurice, Illanums are a Moro tribe also known as the Maranao. At one time they ruled the seas as well as the northern part of Mindanao.

14th August 2008, 04:03 PM	#1
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	NEW PHOTOS AND QUESTION ON THIS ONE Ben So far I have had no success getting the hilt off. I tried with a hot air gun on the blade near to the hilt and gentle tapping. Anyone got any better ideas? I am now getting even more confused with the Borneo swords. The only real difference I can see between the first one that Ben calls a Langgai Tinggal and the Parang Nabur that is shown here is the Krowit. Is this correct ? I have looked through several of the old threads on this subject and still cannot differentiate between Langgai Tinggal, Jimpal and Parang Naibor. Can anyone enlighten me further. Regards Royston Attached Images

15th August 2008, 07:09 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I have been told that this is Filipino, Batangas. Nice upper rank piece - best of this I have seen with all that silver...

16th August 2008, 09:12 AM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Here is a good summary of Shelford's classification of Dayak parang based on his research in Sarawak. http://old.blades.free.fr/swords/day...ayak_intro.htm There are however some mistakes in the tribe column but otherwise it's good to use for separating the different dayak parang. The, so called, Parang Nabur sword of Stone's is an error based on a misreading of a description of a (Parang) Nyabor. That's the reason why neither that sword, nor the kampilan (also an error in Stone's as it's not a dayak sword), is among the swords in Shelford's classification. Yours is from Philippines, not Borneo, as Jose brought up. And a top piece! Michael PS If you want more information on this it's all in the forum archives.

16th August 2008, 05:58 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	VVV, actually there may be a type of kampilan that was used by Illanum migrants in Borneo, also shown in Zonneveld.

16th August 2008, 07:44 PM	#6
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,453	Is there a good book which tells more about the Illanums? I find very little about them in the books I have, but I am very interested to learn more about them. Regards, Maurice

17th August 2008, 03:52 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	VVV, I now understand your point better - focus on the Sea Dayaks. Is it possible that they got kampilans from the Illanums? Maurice, Illanums are a Moro tribe also known as the Maranao. At one time they ruled the seas as well as the northern part of Mindanao.