Indian 'Main Gauche' ???

Andrew · 8th August 2008, 06:12 PM

I'm just trying to sharpen my "critical thinking" skills, Jim.

Jim McDougall · 8th August 2008, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

I'm just trying to sharpen my "critical thinking" skills, Jim.

Uh Oh!!! I hope I'm not sounding like that! Brings back unpleasant memories of belly dancing swords

ward · 8th August 2008, 08:03 PM

I may have come off harsher than I meant, but good antique weapons are expensive and I think it is important for people to look at what they have. Afghan and Indian pieces are notourious for mariages and done in period I do not have a problem with them. Late additions should be treated as what they are.

Andrew · 9th August 2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Uh Oh!!! I hope I'm not sounding like that! Brings back unpleasant memories of belly dancing swords

No, I was sounding like that.

Jens Nordlunde · 9th August 2008, 04:27 PM

Hi David,
The dagger has, of course, been put together, and as it is useless as it is, it is most likely not too long ago. The way the blade is formed, reminds me of the mid blade of some of the trisulas – maybe the maker had a trisula, and decided to make it into three daggers – who knows.

Jens

katana · 9th August 2008, 04:51 PM

Thank you very much Jim, for the additional information....excellent stuff

I am not convinced that this is an antique weapon.....but I am not convinced it isn't either. I have been trying to find a reference regarding Indian weapons and the use of experimental designs. From memory, it related to a battle where an number of fighters were equipped with 'prototype' weapons....the result was these were soon discarded (during battle) and 'known' weapons employed. The point of mentioning this is the fact that there were legit bladed weapons that , perhaps, were never recorded or, only mentioned in 'obscure' accounts ..that have not been discovered or were ignored by researchers.

The diversity of Indian weapons is well known, and although styles persisted (Tulwars, Khanda etc) blade configurations varied enormously to suit customs, function, armour,styling and personal requirements. I have always been amazed at the diversity of mace designs....many with Tulwar hilts. Most maces , in other cultures, are not hilted. I see that the resin fixing makes it quick and easy to attach a weapon but, why the hilt in the first place ? (but I digress ) It makes sense that experimental blades could quickly be fitted to a Tulwar hilt......if the experiment 'failed' ....some heat would quickly separate them, leaving a perfectly useable hilt. If married to a Khanda hilt it requires alot more effort and time. An argument I used to help prove the validity of my Rapier bladed Firangi.

After seeing this Khanda hilted 'dagger' , I thought it too bizarre for a fraudulent 'marriage' or even a bazaar piece . IMHO many 'potential customers' would be 'put off' by its seemingly lack of function greatly reducing its commercialism. In effect, its possible 'creation' to make money was flawed. That is why I began working on the assumption that this was genuine .... and saw one possible use was as a 'main gauche'.
Obviously pictures are not the best way to assess age etc but I would have liked to give this a 'in hand' examination.

Thank you all for your comments.

Kind Regards David

8th August 2008, 06:12 PM	#1
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I'm just trying to sharpen my "critical thinking" skills, Jim.

8th August 2008, 08:03 PM	#3
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I may have come off harsher than I meant, but good antique weapons are expensive and I think it is important for people to look at what they have. Afghan and Indian pieces are notourious for mariages and done in period I do not have a problem with them. Late additions should be treated as what they are.

9th August 2008, 04:27 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi David, The dagger has, of course, been put together, and as it is useless as it is, it is most likely not too long ago. The way the blade is formed, reminds me of the mid blade of some of the trisulas – maybe the maker had a trisula, and decided to make it into three daggers – who knows. Jens

9th August 2008, 04:51 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Thank you very much Jim, for the additional information....excellent stuff I am not convinced that this is an antique weapon.....but I am not convinced it isn't either. I have been trying to find a reference regarding Indian weapons and the use of experimental designs. From memory, it related to a battle where an number of fighters were equipped with 'prototype' weapons....the result was these were soon discarded (during battle) and 'known' weapons employed. The point of mentioning this is the fact that there were legit bladed weapons that , perhaps, were never recorded or, only mentioned in 'obscure' accounts ..that have not been discovered or were ignored by researchers. The diversity of Indian weapons is well known, and although styles persisted (Tulwars, Khanda etc) blade configurations varied enormously to suit customs, function, armour,styling and personal requirements. I have always been amazed at the diversity of mace designs....many with Tulwar hilts. Most maces , in other cultures, are not hilted. I see that the resin fixing makes it quick and easy to attach a weapon but, why the hilt in the first place ? (but I digress ) It makes sense that experimental blades could quickly be fitted to a Tulwar hilt......if the experiment 'failed' ....some heat would quickly separate them, leaving a perfectly useable hilt. If married to a Khanda hilt it requires alot more effort and time. An argument I used to help prove the validity of my Rapier bladed Firangi. After seeing this Khanda hilted 'dagger' , I thought it too bizarre for a fraudulent 'marriage' or even a bazaar piece . IMHO many 'potential customers' would be 'put off' by its seemingly lack of function greatly reducing its commercialism. In effect, its possible 'creation' to make money was flawed. That is why I began working on the assumption that this was genuine .... and saw one possible use was as a 'main gauche'. Obviously pictures are not the best way to assess age etc but I would have liked to give this a 'in hand' examination. Thank you all for your comments. Kind Regards David