Aceh Sikin for coments

[Dajak]

If there was an crown or ring on it you see it on the hilt .

If you take an look at the swapforum an rentjong is sold missing part off the crown as you can see it is carved in the hilt and different color where the missing piece was .

I never see an crown on an inlayed blade like this and like to see an picture of it if it exist .

The litlle darker color below the hilt is from rust .

Name off hilt hulu rumpung page 125

Ben

ps don t you have zonnevelds Book (an must for the weapon collector)

[asomotif]

Dear Fernando,

I also get the impression that a piece of gold ? has been harvested once

For comparrison 2 Sikins with gold inlay.
The first I still have, the second I sold last year much too cheap.

[kronckew]

here is a photo of a number of sikin (and a rencong) with additional metal fittings, looks like yours may have a bit missing after all. i note some of the hulu on the source pages other sikin do taper a bit abruptly towards the bolster as if fitted badly.



The source link

my modern plain one for comparison

[asomotif]

This picture is the old stock (or collection ) from Ben.

Therefore his claim that inlay and collar are/were not combined.

[Dajak]

You right Willem I like to see the ones that have the inlay like the first one
and have an golden crown like the rentjong .

It looks like they not exist .


Ben

[kai]

Hello Fernando,

A smooth area near the base of the hilt (close to the blade) might be original in finished condition: At least the typical hilt of pedeueng pasangan does come with such a smooth area (it's grip is thicker though and the widening area between bolster and grip is usually smooth - thus, it may not be comparable). I don't recall a pedeueng panjang grip with such a smooth area - would need to screen my sources...

Also, horn hilts in low humidity are prone to shrinking and you often see a gap between hilt and blade.

However, in your example there is a kind of iron spacer between the bolster with inlay and the horn hilt. It looks pretty unfinished to me - at least, I wouldn't expect such a thing to be originally exposed to view in such a status weapon! OTOH, it looks like a perfect attachment for a crown IMVHO - I'd guess this may have looked like in the 2 left examples on the pic from Ben's collection (i. e. not being of the spiky version). To me, this also seems to be supported by the horn hilt having a much smaller diameter than the bolster -something I wouldn't expect to see in quality workmanship either!

Actually, I have a rencong with inlaid bolster which once had a crown of the spiky variant: This is clearly shown by the marks visible at the base of the horn hilt (as Ben already mentioned). I'll try to post a pic soon.

Regards,
Kai

[Dajak]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Dear Fernando,

I also get the impression that a piece of gold ? has been harvested once

For comparrison 2 Sikins with gold inlay.
The first I still have, the second I sold last year much too cheap.

Willem you should sure have keep the second one because the first one looks like they replace the Handle


Ben

[fernando]

Thank you all for your input, Gentlemen.
In view of what has been said (and unsaid) and also due to lack of sustainable evidence, i think i better give this dilemma the benefit of the doubt. Indeed the grip/bolster junction, in this example, is not the ideal match, but it seems as this is not a valid self speaker, for what matters. Although the thickness gap between the two parts is somehow outstanding, this appears not to be an uncommon irregularity, judging by other examples one can see out there.
Also i have yet not seen a sikim of this style (blade inlay) with grip (crown) ornaments.
Attached is the picture of one of similar kind, that i found at Oriental Arms arquives, in comparison with my example.

Fernando

[Battara]

What is the difference in status or significance between the gold inlay type and the "crown" type of ferrule?

[kai]

Hello Jose,

What is the difference in status or significance between the gold inlay type and the "crown" type of ferrule?

Ben asked the very same question a good while back but we never got enough evidence for a decent answer...

Obviously, the use of (low grade) gold will indicate a higher status than suassa (gold diluted even further). AFAIK, there are no indications that the use of gold (rather than suassa) was similarly frowned upon by Aceh people(s) as among the Moro. I'd guess that the spiky crown rather than the more rounded variant also shows higher status; the same may go for 3 crowns rather than 2. That's just a mere gut feeling though...

Regards,
Kai

[VVV]

Interesting thoughts on this variation of Sikin.
Here is mine, also acquired from Oriental Arms.
As you can see there is a bone ring as a spacer between the crown and the horn handle.

http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1067

Michael

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Battara

What is the difference in status or significance between the gold inlay type and the "crown" type of ferrule?

Originally Posted by Kai

Hello Jose,
Ben asked the very same question a good while back but we never got enough evidence for a decent answer...

Hi Kai,
If i recall, what Ben asked was the importance of the crowns in handles, not the difference in status between blades with gold inlay and the the crowns.
Crowns may be added at a later stage, while blade inlay is there from the beginning, right ?

Fernando

[Battara]

Originally Posted by Battara

What is the difference in status or significance between the gold inlay type and the "crown" type of ferrule?

Just bringing this thread up again in light of some info I found in van Zonneveld (p.125) that answers part of my question. It is regarding the inlay that he says are auspicious signs (if I understand him right). Although this is in the context of sikim panjang, I think it can apply to other Aceh pieces.

I guess this leaves the crowns for court or status wear as discussed in another thread.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Battara

... It is regarding the inlay that he says are auspicious signs (if I understand him right). Although this is in the context of sikim panjang ...

I 'play' english 'by ear', but i see it in a different way, although it comes to the same . What he seems to say is that it is the flaming veins (Reuta) of the steel damascene (Kuree) that are an auspicious sign and that, some times such blades are (also) provided with gold wire incrustations ... such weapons being named Sikin Panjang Meutatah.
Fernando

[kai]

Hello Fernando,

Although the thickness gap between the two parts is somehow outstanding, this appears not to be an uncommon irregularity, judging by other examples one can see out there.
Also i have yet not seen a sikim of this style (blade inlay) with grip (crown) ornaments.
Attached is the picture of one of similar kind, that i found at Oriental Arms arquives, in comparison with my example.

Actually, I think that this piece from Artzi might be another example of an inlaid blade with (missing) golden crown: If one looks closely, there seems to be the "shadow" of a spiny crown visible where the hatching of the grip starts. It doesn't show the typical deep marks/impressions of the spikes (those Ben and me are referring to) though. However, even if this example doesn't help to prove the case, I believe it should be enough of an indication to keep an open mind on decorations of Aceh blades...

Regards,
Kai