is it possible for blood/flesh to remain on a blade for over a century....

Atlantia · 22nd July 2008, 10:06 PM

The whole lance thing is a bit of a shame really. Of all of the purported Jesus relics, its the one that 'could' possibly have survived in reasonable order.
Well, and the nails of course, but even one of them makes an appearance as a 'guest star' in the Spear legends.
If memory serves, none are earlier than 3rd C. Still I'd like to have a Roman or Byzantine spear, so I'd not kick any of them out the door.

The 'real' one would be a sweet addition to a collection! Not many weapons have 'slain a god'.
Of course, in that 'parrallel universe', I'd swap it in a heartbeat for Excalibur!

chevalier · 23rd July 2008, 12:59 AM

heres the weapon i thought about bidding on with the purported "blood" on it....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=230270071036

it stayed at 99 dollars until the last half hour or so of the auction.........i REALLY am at a loss as to how or why the price rose THAT MUCH in the last 20 or so minutes of the auction........i doubt this peice is worth that much......

Atlantia · 23rd July 2008, 02:31 AM

The hilt is a nice one, but its difficult to see how the blade will look good again without major restoration.
The price seems quite strong to me.

kronckew · 23rd July 2008, 06:23 AM

if there is sticky brown stuff on it, and not rust as it appears, it could be cosmoline grease, courtesy of the US Army bringer-backer.

p.s. -for atlantia, there were eight excalibur swords for sale on epray this a.m., you might get lucky

if the romans had discovered cosmoline, we'd be awash in old roman weapons in as-issued condition but covered in the most persistant substance known to man.

p.p.s - on dating the lances, there was a show on TV here in the UK about the hapsburg lance, i believe they did not date the lance itself, but some organic material on it (wood in the socket?) as metal doesn't date well with c14 tests. also about half the lance's metal was later additions, the viking wings, the waisted section below the gold foil wrap etc. were confirmed by xray to be later additions, the basic leaf shaped roman style blade was untouched as the present guardians would not let them sample that part. likewise the nail wired to the central incision, i think they did sample a bit of the wire. even if those bits are 700ad, that doesn't mean the rest is. it'd be like saying the mona lisa is a fake because it's in a 19c frame.

when you repair, reconstruct, embellish an old blade when does it stop being the original?

Atlantia · 26th July 2008, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

if there is sticky brown stuff on it, and not rust as it appears, it could be cosmoline grease, courtesy of the US Army bringer-backer.

p.s. -for atlantia, there were eight excalibur swords for sale on epray this a.m., you might get lucky

if the romans had discovered cosmoline, we'd be awash in old roman weapons in as-issued condition but covered in the most persistant substance known to man.

p.p.s - on dating the lances, there was a show on TV here in the UK about the hapsburg lance, i believe they did not date the lance itself, but some organic material on it (wood in the socket?) as metal doesn't date well with c14 tests. also about half the lance's metal was later additions, the viking wings, the waisted section below the gold foil wrap etc. were confirmed by xray to be later additions, the basic leaf shaped roman style blade was untouched as the present guardians would not let them sample that part. likewise the nail wired to the central incision, i think they did sample a bit of the wire. even if those bits are 700ad, that doesn't mean the rest is. it'd be like saying the mona lisa is a fake because it's in a 19c frame.

when you repair, reconstruct, embellish an old blade when does it stop being the original?

LOL, 8 Excaliburs!

I'm sure Excaliburs magic would prevent rust without the need for grease ;-)

Strange that the English have such a momentus Magic sword in our 'history' but no great tradition of them.

As for the lance! I'd love any Roman or Byzantine weapon (even snapped!)
The nail seems an illogical inclusion.
Is there any reason why that was supposed to have happened?
Even by religious relic standards it seems ludicrous.

As for (seriously) restoration of weapons.
I'm completely for it.
I think that these things will outlive us all and good traditional method restoration is appropriate and part of their history and journey.

23rd July 2008, 06:23 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	if there is sticky brown stuff on it, and not rust as it appears, it could be cosmoline grease, courtesy of the US Army bringer-backer. p.s. -for atlantia, there were eight excalibur swords for sale on epray this a.m., you might get lucky if the romans had discovered cosmoline, we'd be awash in old roman weapons in as-issued condition but covered in the most persistant substance known to man. p.p.s - on dating the lances, there was a show on TV here in the UK about the hapsburg lance, i believe they did not date the lance itself, but some organic material on it (wood in the socket?) as metal doesn't date well with c14 tests. also about half the lance's metal was later additions, the viking wings, the waisted section below the gold foil wrap etc. were confirmed by xray to be later additions, the basic leaf shaped roman style blade was untouched as the present guardians would not let them sample that part. likewise the nail wired to the central incision, i think they did sample a bit of the wire. even if those bits are 700ad, that doesn't mean the rest is. it'd be like saying the mona lisa is a fake because it's in a 19c frame. when you repair, reconstruct, embellish an old blade when does it stop being the original? Last edited by kronckew; 23rd July 2008 at 06:51 AM.

22nd July 2008, 10:06 PM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	The whole lance thing is a bit of a shame really. Of all of the purported Jesus relics, its the one that 'could' possibly have survived in reasonable order. Well, and the nails of course, but even one of them makes an appearance as a 'guest star' in the Spear legends. If memory serves, none are earlier than 3rd C. Still I'd like to have a Roman or Byzantine spear, so I'd not kick any of them out the door. The 'real' one would be a sweet addition to a collection! Not many weapons have 'slain a god'. Of course, in that 'parrallel universe', I'd swap it in a heartbeat for Excalibur!

23rd July 2008, 12:59 AM	#2
chevalier Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 119	heres the weapon i thought about bidding on with the purported "blood" on it.... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=230270071036 it stayed at 99 dollars until the last half hour or so of the auction.........i REALLY am at a loss as to how or why the price rose THAT MUCH in the last 20 or so minutes of the auction........i doubt this peice is worth that much......

23rd July 2008, 02:31 AM	#3
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	The hilt is a nice one, but its difficult to see how the blade will look good again without major restoration. The price seems quite strong to me.