Am I Missing Something Here??

Robert · 10th July 2008, 05:02 AM

Thank you all for your response to this post. I have to agree with Katana that this does show age (late 19th to early 20th century) and I do think that it is an actual weapon and not just a letter opener or paper-knife. What surprised me was the price that it went for. David, I've tried to find any written evidence about magical protections of brass or copper blades but have had no luck as of now. If anyone has any information on this, please post. Thank you all again for you thoughts.

Robert

Atlantia · 10th July 2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Thank you all for your response to this post. I have to agree with Katana that this does show age (late 19th to early 20th century) and I do think that it is an actual weapon and not just a letter opener or paper-knife. What surprised me was the price that it went for. David, I've tried to find any written evidence about magical protections of brass or copper blades but have had no luck as of now. If anyone has any information on this, please post. Thank you all again for you thoughts.

Robert

I dont think the brass/bronze looks to have much patination. A little, and some stains from having something spilt on it, but I don't get a feel of real age from it.
Has anyone contacted the two highest bidders and asked them to enlighten us?

katana · 10th July 2008, 04:53 PM

The thickness of the blade and the 'waves' are not ideal for a paperknife

There is evidence of 'oldish' damage to the tip of the blade...from legitimate use or abuse ...who knows.

The dagger, IMHO strongly suggests SEA origins, (or European (Spanish ?)made with SEA influences )

It is difficult to access patina when you 'lighten' (brightness, contrast etc) the quite dark 'listing' pictures. I was looking more at the wear and tear of the hilt which suggested to me 'some age'.

If this dagger is/was of some significance, it is likely the blade would have been kept relatively 'clean', ruining the chance of a reasonable patina to establish itself.

Although unconvinced that this dagger was worth the money, I would not be surprised if it does, indeed have ' monatary value'.... higher than the general concensus expressed.

Regards David

Robert · 10th July 2008, 11:13 PM

I would guess that this is of Philippine origin with strong Spanish influence and possible from Luzon. Too bad there was no scabbard or sheath with it as it would have been of great help in identifying its origin and actual age. One of the big problems with brass, bronze or copper blades is that if anyone cleans them it takes many years to develop any patina. I have one that was brought back from the Spanish American War that was cleaned (to death) by the seller because he thought it would help when he sold it.

Battara · 11th July 2008, 04:28 AM

If this is Filipino, then it is Ilocano which is in the northeast section of Luzon Island. They are the only ones known for their wavy blades outside of the Moros in the Philippines. This topic has been brought up before and one theory is that it is ceremonial in nature, perhaps even talismanic or anting-anting.

I hesitated getting involved in the discussion because the waves are a bit sharp for most Ilocano pieces (if I am viewing the pictures right) but right for athame pieces that are wiccan. Yet the crossguard looks Spanish-Filipino and it looks like carabao horn.

Would love to see some research on such pieces.

Robert · 11th July 2008, 06:52 AM

Hi Jose,
I was thinking the reason the waves looked a bit sharp was because of the angle the pictures were taken. Of coarse this is only an opinion. The only picture that is straight on is of the grip itself and shows little of the blade. I've been searching for information on brass and copper bladed knives from the Philippines since the first one I found and posted here on the forum. The main reason that I started this post was because of the extraordinary price that this one brought and thought that someone might be able to shed new light on the purpose or significance of this style of weapon.

10th July 2008, 05:02 AM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Thank you all for your response to this post. I have to agree with Katana that this does show age (late 19th to early 20th century) and I do think that it is an actual weapon and not just a letter opener or paper-knife. What surprised me was the price that it went for. David, I've tried to find any written evidence about magical protections of brass or copper blades but have had no luck as of now. If anyone has any information on this, please post. Thank you all again for you thoughts. Robert

10th July 2008, 04:53 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	The thickness of the blade and the 'waves' are not ideal for a paperknife There is evidence of 'oldish' damage to the tip of the blade...from legitimate use or abuse ...who knows. The dagger, IMHO strongly suggests SEA origins, (or European (Spanish ?)made with SEA influences ) It is difficult to access patina when you 'lighten' (brightness, contrast etc) the quite dark 'listing' pictures. I was looking more at the wear and tear of the hilt which suggested to me 'some age'. If this dagger is/was of some significance, it is likely the blade would have been kept relatively 'clean', ruining the chance of a reasonable patina to establish itself. Although unconvinced that this dagger was worth the money, I would not be surprised if it does, indeed have ' monatary value'.... higher than the general concensus expressed. Regards David

10th July 2008, 11:13 PM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	I would guess that this is of Philippine origin with strong Spanish influence and possible from Luzon. Too bad there was no scabbard or sheath with it as it would have been of great help in identifying its origin and actual age. One of the big problems with brass, bronze or copper blades is that if anyone cleans them it takes many years to develop any patina. I have one that was brought back from the Spanish American War that was cleaned (to death) by the seller because he thought it would help when he sold it.

11th July 2008, 04:28 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	If this is Filipino, then it is Ilocano which is in the northeast section of Luzon Island. They are the only ones known for their wavy blades outside of the Moros in the Philippines. This topic has been brought up before and one theory is that it is ceremonial in nature, perhaps even talismanic or anting-anting. I hesitated getting involved in the discussion because the waves are a bit sharp for most Ilocano pieces (if I am viewing the pictures right) but right for athame pieces that are wiccan. Yet the crossguard looks Spanish-Filipino and it looks like carabao horn. Would love to see some research on such pieces.

11th July 2008, 06:52 AM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hi Jose, I was thinking the reason the waves looked a bit sharp was because of the angle the pictures were taken. Of coarse this is only an opinion. The only picture that is straight on is of the grip itself and shows little of the blade. I've been searching for information on brass and copper bladed knives from the Philippines since the first one I found and posted here on the forum. The main reason that I started this post was because of the extraordinary price that this one brought and thought that someone might be able to shed new light on the purpose or significance of this style of weapon.