Moro Armor Arabic Inscription

A. G. Maisey · 4th July 2008, 01:17 AM

Agreed Ward, the language has not changed, but the way in which it is represented can vary, depending upon the level of knowledge, education, or skill of the person who writes the inscription.

ward · 4th July 2008, 01:26 AM

If i get a chance this weekend I will take some pics of the various scripts and post them.

Lew · 4th July 2008, 02:50 AM

Ward

I picked up a very nice tulwar a few months back which had this inscription on the spine. I asked about 10 of my Arabic friends to help me out with the translations but none of them could read. They all told me it was an older script form that they were not familar with. So if Arabic is Arabic why did they have trouble reading it? Btw Ham was able to translate it and it reads "THERE IS NO HERO LIKE 'ALI AND SWORD LIKE DHUL'FAKAR".

Lew

Lew · 4th July 2008, 03:21 AM

Here is an example of different Arabic script forms. So what I am trying to say that if the script on the armor was Thuluth than it could have been of Ottoman origin but it does not seem to be of that type.

7. Samples of Cursive Styles of Arabic calligraphy. From top to bottom:
Naskh, Thuluth, Muhaqqaq, Nastaliq, and riq'a.

ward · 4th July 2008, 03:24 AM

reading a individual's handwriting is difficult at times and I believe ham has had a lot of practice at that. If you would look at my english cursive script and my wifes it is like night and day. still the same language but it looks totally different. Caligraphy is another fun one sometimes there is a lot of artistic licence used the look being more important than the message.

Lew · 4th July 2008, 03:35 AM

Ward

I am not an expert in Arabic and I will have to leave this up to more knowledgeable people

Lew

ward · 4th July 2008, 03:40 AM

Here is a example of moroccan arabic. The scipt is more kufic and messy but it does show how difficult handwriting can be do decipher. This is a student board it was used instead of paper in class. It gets whiped done and when it got really messy was white washed again

Zifir · 4th July 2008, 07:58 AM

This is a prayer in Arabic, reciting and praising different names of Allah. I could not read all, but for example lines 5th and 6th is read:

La Havle ve la Kuvvete illa billahil aliyyu'l-Azim (There is no power and strength except with Allah, The Grand, The Great)

Although in some places the script is little bit erased or blurred because of the picture, an Arabic speaking member can read it all easily I think. As far as I see there is not anything which can clearly link it to Ottomans.

ward · 4th July 2008, 08:01 PM

here are 2 types of arabic scripts different regions and within a 100 years or so. They are both chapters from the Koran but even though the scrpts are very different if you look caefully you will see a lot of the same words. Whenever you see a lot of tashkel or voweling( the dashes over top or underneath or little u's or 9's or g's) you can ususally assume that it is a koranic script. In standad arabic the author assumes you know the short voweling of the word and drives any student of arabic crazy.These 2 are the more dramatic changes to the scipting

4th July 2008, 02:50 AM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Ward I picked up a very nice tulwar a few months back which had this inscription on the spine. I asked about 10 of my Arabic friends to help me out with the translations but none of them could read. They all told me it was an older script form that they were not familar with. So if Arabic is Arabic why did they have trouble reading it? Btw Ham was able to translate it and it reads "THERE IS NO HERO LIKE 'ALI AND SWORD LIKE DHUL'FAKAR". Lew Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 4th July 2008 at 03:01 AM.

4th July 2008, 03:21 AM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Here is an example of different Arabic script forms. So what I am trying to say that if the script on the armor was Thuluth than it could have been of Ottoman origin but it does not seem to be of that type. 7. Samples of Cursive Styles of Arabic calligraphy. From top to bottom: Naskh, Thuluth, Muhaqqaq, Nastaliq, and riq'a. Attached Images

4th July 2008, 03:40 AM	#7
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Here is a example of moroccan arabic. The scipt is more kufic and messy but it does show how difficult handwriting can be do decipher. This is a student board it was used instead of paper in class. It gets whiped done and when it got really messy was white washed again Attached Images Last edited by ward; 4th July 2008 at 02:28 PM.

4th July 2008, 08:01 PM	#9
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	various scripts here are 2 types of arabic scripts different regions and within a 100 years or so. They are both chapters from the Koran but even though the scrpts are very different if you look caefully you will see a lot of the same words. Whenever you see a lot of tashkel or voweling( the dashes over top or underneath or little u's or 9's or g's) you can ususally assume that it is a koranic script. In standad arabic the author assumes you know the short voweling of the word and drives any student of arabic crazy.These 2 are the more dramatic changes to the scipting Attached Images

4th July 2008, 01:17 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,013	Agreed Ward, the language has not changed, but the way in which it is represented can vary, depending upon the level of knowledge, education, or skill of the person who writes the inscription.

4th July 2008, 01:26 AM	#2
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	If i get a chance this weekend I will take some pics of the various scripts and post them.

4th July 2008, 03:24 AM	#5
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	reading a individual's handwriting is difficult at times and I believe ham has had a lot of practice at that. If you would look at my english cursive script and my wifes it is like night and day. still the same language but it looks totally different. Caligraphy is another fun one sometimes there is a lot of artistic licence used the look being more important than the message.

4th July 2008, 03:35 AM	#6
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Ward I am not an expert in Arabic and I will have to leave this up to more knowledgeable people Lew

4th July 2008, 07:58 AM	#8
Zifir Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	This is a prayer in Arabic, reciting and praising different names of Allah. I could not read all, but for example lines 5th and 6th is read: La Havle ve la Kuvvete illa billahil aliyyu'l-Azim (There is no power and strength except with Allah, The Grand, The Great) Although in some places the script is little bit erased or blurred because of the picture, an Arabic speaking member can read it all easily I think. As far as I see there is not anything which can clearly link it to Ottomans.