Shamshir help needed Blade cartouche translation

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by TVV

I personally do not think the hilt is Turkish.

I'm certainly no expert TVV I'm only guessing. Do you have any strong leanings as to where it might hail from?

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

I'm certainly no expert TVV I'm only guessing. Do you have any strong leanings as to where it might hail from?

I am not absolutely certain, but the pommel with the cap looks Persian to me. But as pointed out it could also be Indian or Central Asian. I just do not think it is Ottoman, because of the hilt shape.

[ward]

TVV is right its not Turkish probably had grips replaced in working life maybe the guard was modified at that time. Pommel is older maybe from another sword

Ward

[Atlantia]

Hi Ward, so you thinking persian/middle east?

Oh, and Bump! ;-)

[ward]

Pommel India or Persia blade probably India. Nothing Turkish here I can see might have been made up for use or put together for show hard to say

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by ward

Pommel India or Persia blade probably India. Nothing Turkish here I can see might have been made up for use or put together for show hard to say

Hi Ward,

I'm certain the handle elements (scales and guard) have been on it for the better part of the last C. The pommel may be a little later but even thats been there for a long time. I do wonder if the blade was remounted or traded and the back end was recut to accomodate the rivetted handle, but the proportions feel right when you weild it, and its certainly seen a lot of action in this form.
I've restored/repaired a lot of swords, even completely made them from scratch, and I get no feel of marriage or recent work from this. Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly 'bigging it up' as its certainly no sultans weapon. But it does feel completely honest to me.

Have you had any more thoughts on the cartouche?

Cheers
Gene
Hers some handle close-ups.
Its basic but feels honest

[ward]

Once you handle a few of these Indo Persian Turkish Afghan whatever you see that all that gunk under the crossguard is never found on original hilting. Not saying it wasnt used in battle just hard to tell. Almost never see wood grips on this type sword and the guard has defiantly had 3 out of 4 langet cut off. Also these swords were used until at least WWII in some parts of the world so yes probably put together like this for use just not how originally done. Im just saying you dont want to rely on this as typical period example. Looks like epoxy around the guard hard to tell from pics. Are you near musuems you can examine some older ones and compare. What is length of blade in a straight line?

Ward