keris blade for comment.

nechesh · 28th March 2005, 01:42 AM

Hi Smashy. I wasn't really questioning your sanding techniques. Traditionally a Bali blade would be polished though i am not particularly certain how this is actually done. As for your staining process, i give you kudos for grinding up your own from realgar. From what i know about the process the arsenic isn't used in the cleaning stage though. Usually that is done first and then a mixture of arsenic and lime juice is used to stain. Your method seemed a bit unorthodox, but if it worked....

It's the battery acid part that worries me and also Wayne's suggest of other harsher acids. There will always be disagreement between collectors on this point, i suppose, dependant upon how much you relate to both the cultural and the mystical aspects of the keris, but my feeling has always been that in this case, the old ways are the best ways (for the spirit of the keris) and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I admire your enterprise, but i don't think battery acid is for me.

BSMStar · 28th March 2005, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

It's the battery acid part that worries me and also Wayne's suggest of other harsher acids. There will always be disagreement between collectors on this point, i suppose, dependant upon how much you relate to both the cultural and the mystical aspects of the keris, but my feeling has always been that in this case, the old ways are the best ways

Hi nechesh,

First I would like to address that different acids would react differently with different substances. It is a matter of selecting the best acid for the job... To me, harshness is more of a degree of concentration or dilution than which acid is being used (in this case). Notice the concentrations I am suggesting. As to rust removal, I believe I stated in extreme cases (in other words, its already "junk"), and even then, dilution is an option I would suggest (always start with a less aggressive solution).

I can fully understand the Captain's position on what to do with blade that is less than "prime." Being a Japanese sword collector, one is always faces with the dilemma... is it valuable enough to sent it to Japan and have it re-polished at over $100 an inch (plus furniture... so you can rap up $3,000 to $5,000 into a sword real fast) or do something else (especially if the blade is only worth $500 even after being polished).... I have a hand made blade from around 1910, the Japanese will not accept for polish because it is not from the Samurai period (its their law). Now what do you do?

I would not take a "do it yourself" approach with an expensive Pusaka... but on a "reject" piece that I have nothing to lose.... It won't be the Indonesian way and it should not compete with their way, but as a last resort to "save" or bring "new life" to a piece, I think it is worth the experiment rather than shove it in a drawer to let it rust away. Who knows what we may learn? As for the better blades, I agree with you nechesh... let it be done the correct and traditional way.

I will try to post a picture of what can happen if one gets too aggressive with acid. It is a crying shame.

BSMStar · 31st March 2005, 06:43 PM

Fair warning for you faint of heart... do not look at the following image... acid burns... and can destroy a Keris!

capt.smash · 31st March 2005, 07:39 PM

Holy smoke dude what happened there?

Did you do it or is it an example you have seen?

Rick · 31st March 2005, 07:54 PM

Of an OD on acid .

BSMStar · 1st April 2005, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capt.smash

Holy smoke dude what happened there?

Did you do it or is it an example you have seen?

Well Captain...

This is an example I saw; I would never treat a blade this way! I think someone was trying to artificially age this blade... and ended up creating a monster.

What someone will do (and end up ruining) for money.

On the other hand Captain, you are trying to "clean up" a blade, not age it. You are trying to bring it back to its old glory, not create a fake glory for it. This will not happen (what happened to that blade) with acids unless it is through ignorance or intent (in other words, they mean to do it) or both.

People are going to try this (restoring blades); I hate to see ignorance ruining what can be good blades. At least we can say, "start small and do the least possible" and offer a little guidance. As for intent... (I don't think I can voice my opinion on the forum).

rasdan · 1st April 2005, 04:27 AM

[QUOTE=BSMStar]Well Captain...

This is an example I saw; I would never treat a blade this way! I think someone was trying to artificially age this blade... and ended up creating a monster.

QUOTE]

Like what happened in Dr. Demento's "Monster Mash".

"I was working in the lab late one night,
When my eyes beheld on an eery sight,
For my keris on the slab began to rise,
And suddenly to my suprise..."

Rick · 1st April 2005, 03:02 PM

[QUOTE=rasdan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSMStar

Well Captain...

This is an example I saw; I would never treat a blade this way! I think someone was trying to artificially age this blade... and ended up creating a monster.

QUOTE]

Like what happened in Dr. Demento's "Monster Mash".

"I was working in the lab late one night,
When my eyes beheld on an eery sight,
For my keris on the slab began to rise,
And suddenly to my suprise..."

Wow Ras , I used to hang out with the co-author of that song Lenny Capizzi back in the bad old days around Harvard Square .

nechesh · 7th April 2005, 10:09 PM

Sorry Tom, i can assure you that there is absolutely NO bitterness or anger in my commentary, towards you or anyone else participating in this thread. Obviously i misunderstood your meaning, but if you re-read your statement again, perhaps you can see that the sentence structure you used could lend itself to my interpretation. I seriously had NO intent to twist your words for the sake of an argument. I had NO intent nor reason to attack you. I must also say that while i can accept the responsibilty for my own misunderstandings, i in no way am willing to consider myself representative of those who choose not to speak on this forum, nor do i take responsibility for any more than the words i actually wrote. You go on to suggest that:
"So very much of this confusion could be avoided by reading what I say as itself, rather than reading into it, but oh well; that may not be reasonable or possible."
I agree, so why would you be reading between my lines looking for anger and bitterness that does not exist? You have not threatened my paradigm with any great truths, i assure you; truth is relative anyway, both yours and mine, and there is no use getting one's panties in a twist about them.
I agree with Rick that if we need further clarification and understanding that we should take it to PM, but for the record i did feel the need to address your comments in a public forum.Once again, sorry for any misunderstanding.

tom hyle · 8th April 2005, 03:45 AM

Though (perhaps for reasons of brevity/editorial clarity) Rick's recap left me hanging on them, both BSMStar (who posted the skeleton pic) and Battara had also expressed concerns in the matter, as I have already said. As far as a simple misunderstanding goes, hey, no problem, and if the shoes even do fit, that doesn't mean you have to keep wearing them (that, and not to be insulting or smartassed, BTW, was why I said it may not be reasonable or possible to not read into people's words, for instance; I noticed I'd done what I didn't like, and couldn't see any way entirely not to do it; so I thought I'd at least point out the inconsistency.....); I don't think it's clear to....maybe anyone else.....that I actually, really was not addressing nechesh and his concerns particular per se as such, but the world at large and its concerns, and that seems like the only fact I haven't already made clear about the matter; seems clear to me. No offense taken, no offense intended; no harm, no foul. That's my last public word on that.

nechesh · 31st March 2005, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSMStar

Fair warning for you faint of heart... do not look at the following image... acid burns... and can destroy a Keris!

OUCH!!! I took too much acid once back in the mid '70s, but that's another story.....

Battara · 31st March 2005, 10:39 PM

Those two are acid trips I don't want to take!

When it comes to etching blades, I do feel that when in doubt, less is more (and I do a lot of etching).

Battara · 31st March 2005, 10:42 PM

Those two are acid trips I don't want to take!

When it comes to etching blades, I do feel that when in doubt, less is more (and I do a lot of etching).

And in the case of my Balinese keris, I have left it alone (thank you forumites for your advise). If it ain't broke, don't break it anymore (especially in my case). On the other hand, nice job Smashy!

31st March 2005, 06:43 PM	#3
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Warning: Graphic image! Fair warning for you faint of heart... do not look at the following image... acid burns... and can destroy a Keris! Attached Images

31st March 2005, 07:54 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Another Example Of an OD on acid . Attached Images

8th April 2005, 03:45 AM	#10
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	no harm, no foul Though (perhaps for reasons of brevity/editorial clarity) Rick's recap left me hanging on them, both BSMStar (who posted the skeleton pic) and Battara had also expressed concerns in the matter, as I have already said. As far as a simple misunderstanding goes, hey, no problem, and if the shoes even do fit, that doesn't mean you have to keep wearing them (that, and not to be insulting or smartassed, BTW, was why I said it may not be reasonable or possible to not read into people's words, for instance; I noticed I'd done what I didn't like, and couldn't see any way entirely not to do it; so I thought I'd at least point out the inconsistency.....); I don't think it's clear to....maybe anyone else.....that I actually, really was not addressing nechesh and his concerns particular per se as such, but the world at large and its concerns, and that seems like the only fact I haven't already made clear about the matter; seems clear to me. No offense taken, no offense intended; no harm, no foul. That's my last public word on that.

28th March 2005, 01:42 AM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hi Smashy. I wasn't really questioning your sanding techniques. Traditionally a Bali blade would be polished though i am not particularly certain how this is actually done. As for your staining process, i give you kudos for grinding up your own from realgar. From what i know about the process the arsenic isn't used in the cleaning stage though. Usually that is done first and then a mixture of arsenic and lime juice is used to stain. Your method seemed a bit unorthodox, but if it worked.... It's the battery acid part that worries me and also Wayne's suggest of other harsher acids. There will always be disagreement between collectors on this point, i suppose, dependant upon how much you relate to both the cultural and the mystical aspects of the keris, but my feeling has always been that in this case, the old ways are the best ways (for the spirit of the keris) and if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I admire your enterprise, but i don't think battery acid is for me.

31st March 2005, 07:39 PM	#4
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	Holy smoke dude what happened there? Did you do it or is it an example you have seen?

1st April 2005, 04:27 AM	#7
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	[QUOTE=BSMStar]Well Captain... This is an example I saw; I would never treat a blade this way! I think someone was trying to artificially age this blade... and ended up creating a monster. QUOTE] Like what happened in Dr. Demento's "Monster Mash". "I was working in the lab late one night, When my eyes beheld on an eery sight, For my keris on the slab began to rise, And suddenly to my suprise..."

7th April 2005, 10:09 PM	#9
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Sorry Tom, i can assure you that there is absolutely NO bitterness or anger in my commentary, towards you or anyone else participating in this thread. Obviously i misunderstood your meaning, but if you re-read your statement again, perhaps you can see that the sentence structure you used could lend itself to my interpretation. I seriously had NO intent to twist your words for the sake of an argument. I had NO intent nor reason to attack you. I must also say that while i can accept the responsibilty for my own misunderstandings, i in no way am willing to consider myself representative of those who choose not to speak on this forum, nor do i take responsibility for any more than the words i actually wrote. You go on to suggest that: "So very much of this confusion could be avoided by reading what I say as itself, rather than reading into it, but oh well; that may not be reasonable or possible." I agree, so why would you be reading between my lines looking for anger and bitterness that does not exist? You have not threatened my paradigm with any great truths, i assure you; truth is relative anyway, both yours and mine, and there is no use getting one's panties in a twist about them. I agree with Rick that if we need further clarification and understanding that we should take it to PM, but for the record i did feel the need to address your comments in a public forum.Once again, sorry for any misunderstanding.

31st March 2005, 10:39 PM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Those two are acid trips I don't want to take! When it comes to etching blades, I do feel that when in doubt, less is more (and I do a lot of etching).

31st March 2005, 10:42 PM	#13
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Those two are acid trips I don't want to take! When it comes to etching blades, I do feel that when in doubt, less is more (and I do a lot of etching). And in the case of my Balinese keris, I have left it alone (thank you forumites for your advise). If it ain't broke, don't break it anymore (especially in my case). On the other hand, nice job Smashy!