overpriced or fake?

josh stout · 19th June 2008, 08:14 PM

I see these often on eBay for a high price. I think the ones with age are early 20th c. copies of Qianlong styles, but this one I think was made yesterday. What do you think?

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/...d=1#la-image-3

Rick · 19th June 2008, 08:29 PM

Check the bid history .

Lew · 19th June 2008, 09:05 PM

What a lovely old sword. NOT!!!

Lew

katana · 19th June 2008, 09:39 PM

With my limited experience...alarm bells are ringing

The winning bidder seems to have had his bid amount raised from a 'winning absentee bid' of $1100 to $1400 without any other bids....or so I thought and then you see this in the small print ...

"Bidding details for Live Auction Floor Bidders are unavailable and cannot be displayed."

Call me suspicious....but having an absentee bid 'on the table' the 'auctioneer' can see their max. amount......throw in some 'ghost' floor bids (for which 'they' do not hold records of floor 'bids' ie "unavailable") and you 've just bumped up the price $300, increasing the commission fees.

And then of course....once you found out that your 19th C sword is a 'spritely' late 20th C which has been probably been 'fumed' with ammonia, salt and vinegared and even possibly urinated on....you discover this in the small print...

...."All property is sold "as is", and neither the auctioneer nor any consignor makes any warranties or representation of any kind or nature with respect to the property, and in no event shall they be responsible for the correctness, nor deemed to have made any representation or warranty, or description, genuineness, authorship, attribution, provenance, period, culture, source, origin, or condition of the property and no statement made at the sale, or in the bill of sale, or invoice or elsewhere shall be deemed such a warranty of representation or an assumption of liability. All sales are final, no returns under any circumstances. Jewelry dwt and carat weights are approximate. Precious metals not tested....."

A sorry outcome for the buyer, I feel.

( Disclaimer, the opinions expressed in this post are just possibilities or situations that could occur....with online auctions in general ....and are not aimed at any particular individual or auction site, house or company

)

Regards David

(actually ...perhaps you should call me sarcastic....not suspicious

)

Bill M · 20th June 2008, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Check the bid history .

Looks like the buyer bid $1200, $1300 and then $1400 with no one else bidding?

I don't often do live auctions, get too excited and make really dumb bids. That's why I use a sniper. Just set it and see if I won it later.

But can someone tell me how does an "absentee bid" work? As I understand it, you can make a large bid in advance and the auctioneer will incrementally bid in your bid, just keeping ahead of the other bidders. But if you are online, whatever you bid is the price.

This may be why Rick points this out. It looks like the buyer bid it up himself?

Rick · 20th June 2008, 12:15 AM

...... Is the only one worth bidding for in these crossover/fusion situations .

The worst of both worlds .
Would not touch .*

*Not even with a 10 meter pole .

Rick · 20th June 2008, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Looks like the buyer bid $1200, $1300 and then $1400 with no one else bidding?

I don't often do live auctions, get too excited and make really dumb bids. That's why I use a sniper. Just set it and see if I won it later.

But can someone tell me how does an "absentee bid" work? As I understand it, you can make a large bid in advance and the auctioneer will incrementally bid in your bid, just keeping ahead of the other bidders. But if you are online, whatever you bid is the price.

This may be why Rick points this out. It looks like the buyer bid it up himself?

I have seen this kind of Bidder panic before on the 'Bay .

Inexperience, item lust, L.O.K. (lack of knowledge) are some of the reasons .

Then comes 'Buyer's Remorse' .
Who hasn't been there .

Bill M · 20th June 2008, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I have seen this kind of Bidder panic before on the 'Bay .

Inexperience, item lust, L.O.K. (lack of knowledge) are some of the reasons .

Then comes 'Buyer's Remorse' .
Who hasn't been there .

Well, yeah, but I would not have bid on this piece in my wildest testosterone-induced bidding state, anyhow. For what it is claimed to be it was very cheap. For what I suspect it really is, it was far, far too much!

Rick · 20th June 2008, 12:52 AM

"There but for fortune."
(and knowledge)

Eh ?

asomotif · 21st June 2008, 12:12 AM

Absentee bids at auctions are a matter of trust.

A respectable auction house is not suposed to use imaginairy floor bidders.

Personally I would not be happy to be floor bidder and have some anonimous ebay bidder bring me to higher prices.
Unless of course the auction would not be anonimous and you would be able to check all biiders.

As for chinese items, I like the food. That must be about the only chinese thing where "what you see, is what you get" .

Bill M · 21st June 2008, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

The worst of both worlds .
Would not touch .*

.

josh stout · 23rd June 2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Well, yeah, but I would not have bid on this piece in my wildest testosterone-induced bidding state, anyhow. For what it is claimed to be it was very cheap. For what I suspect it really is, it was far, far too much!

But this is what I am wondering. I think there is a good consensus that this one was made very recently, but I think "genuine" ones were made in the early 20th c. to brighten up a wall. They seem to be based on 18th c. Taoist ritual swords, often including markings characteristic of the Qianlong era, however, rather than incised designs and characters with metal inlays/koftgari they seem to have very thin designs, that almost seem painted on, or done in very crude koftgari.

I have talked to a few collectors in China and America about this, and there seems to be debate whether some are genuinely 18th c. with some early 20th c. copies and many fakes, if there are a few high quality 18th c. pieces and many fakes, or if there were a large number of early 20th c. wall hangers made that are now being copied.
Josh

19th June 2008, 08:14 PM	#1
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	overpriced or fake? I see these often on eBay for a high price. I think the ones with age are early 20th c. copies of Qianlong styles, but this one I think was made yesterday. What do you think? http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/...d=1#la-image-3 Last edited by josh stout; 19th June 2008 at 11:46 PM.

20th June 2008, 12:15 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	A Bird In The Hand ...... ...... Is the only one worth bidding for in these crossover/fusion situations . The worst of both worlds . Would not touch .* *Not even with a 10 meter pole .

19th June 2008, 08:29 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Check the bid history .

19th June 2008, 09:05 PM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	What a lovely old sword. NOT!!! Lew

19th June 2008, 09:39 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	With my limited experience...alarm bells are ringing The winning bidder seems to have had his bid amount raised from a 'winning absentee bid' of $1100 to $1400 without any other bids....or so I thought and then you see this in the small print ... "Bidding details for Live Auction Floor Bidders are unavailable and cannot be displayed." Call me suspicious....but having an absentee bid 'on the table' the 'auctioneer' can see their max. amount......throw in some 'ghost' floor bids (for which 'they' do not hold records of floor 'bids' ie "unavailable") and you 've just bumped up the price $300, increasing the commission fees. And then of course....once you found out that your 19th C sword is a 'spritely' late 20th C which has been probably been 'fumed' with ammonia, salt and vinegared and even possibly urinated on....you discover this in the small print... ...."All property is sold "as is", and neither the auctioneer nor any consignor makes any warranties or representation of any kind or nature with respect to the property, and in no event shall they be responsible for the correctness, nor deemed to have made any representation or warranty, or description, genuineness, authorship, attribution, provenance, period, culture, source, origin, or condition of the property and no statement made at the sale, or in the bill of sale, or invoice or elsewhere shall be deemed such a warranty of representation or an assumption of liability. All sales are final, no returns under any circumstances. Jewelry dwt and carat weights are approximate. Precious metals not tested....." A sorry outcome for the buyer, I feel. ( Disclaimer, the opinions expressed in this post are just possibilities or situations that could occur....with online auctions in general ....and are not aimed at any particular individual or auction site, house or company ) Regards David (actually ...perhaps you should call me sarcastic....not suspicious )

20th June 2008, 12:52 AM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	"There but for fortune." (and knowledge) Eh ?

21st June 2008, 12:12 AM	#10
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Absentee bids at auctions are a matter of trust. A respectable auction house is not suposed to use imaginairy floor bidders. Personally I would not be happy to be floor bidder and have some anonimous ebay bidder bring me to higher prices. Unless of course the auction would not be anonimous and you would be able to check all biiders. As for chinese items, I like the food. That must be about the only chinese thing where "what you see, is what you get" .