Anatomy of a Jambiya The Old vs The New and How to Tell Them Apart

Gonzalo G · 15th June 2008, 04:55 PM

Very nice thread, thank you for sharing this information and photos.
Regards

Gonzalo

Lew · 17th June 2008, 03:32 AM

Hear is an Omani jambiya that sold today on ebay and it seems highly suspect to me. The embossing seems to be stamped out the blade for some reason was etched to give it a wootz effect but I can see no pattern and there is no central rib in the blade. The leather is newer looking without any wear. I would place this piece around 1970-80. The jambiya at the bottom also just finished on ebay and to me this one is a true older piece late 19th century. Notice the older style blade good quality silver work and good wear as if it had been carried a long time by it's original owner.

http://cgi.ebay.com/19th-early-20th-...d=p3286.c0.m14

Lew

Battara · 17th June 2008, 04:21 AM

Lew, I agree with you 200% That other newer one - BLEHHH!

josh stout · 17th June 2008, 05:16 PM

It is amazing to me how many people seem to be searching for new antiques. When an antique looks old, many people are not interested. My guess is that the new example shown in the last few pictures was not too diferent in price from the one with obvious age.

Josh

TVV · 17th June 2008, 05:41 PM

Lew,
Thank you for this well written and informative post!
Teodor

katana · 17th June 2008, 05:53 PM

The blade on the more recent Omani is very strange. There does seem to a central rib....all be it very 'unpronounced', the blade edges are rounded

The 'wootz' pattern is very indistinct but is very fine, faked acid etched wootz is (AFAIK) much coarser and its surface 'ridged'

The blade's mat grey apearance certainly suggests its been 'etched'...perhaps too agressively with a more consentrated acid ?
If this blade is definately not wootz ....has someone deliberately or accidently create the 'look' of 'the possibility of wootz'

In general I was informed that mid to late 20th C Jambiya's had sheet metal blades ie two halves welded/braised together. Is this the case for the mass majority manufactured at that time. As this blade looks 'solid'.

Regards David

Lew · 17th June 2008, 06:23 PM

Dave

Not all mid 20th century blades were made of two halfs welded together. This blade has a shallow diamond shaped grind to it and not a raised forged rib as seen in the other example. So this blade was probably made via stock removal. As far as I know Arabian,Yemen and Omani jambiya were never etched they always show a high degree of polish. This blade looks as if it was purposely etched or over etched to give the blade either a wootz look or at the least an older look. This seller often comes up with blades that have been recently etched just to show off a particular pattern even if it's shear steel so he can say it's damascus. It's like using the Zulu term on any African piece it seems to stir up higher prices

people here the word wootz and they start to flip out. It's like Sy Syms always said "An educated consumer is our best bet"

Lew

katana · 17th June 2008, 07:10 PM

Thanks Lew,
for clarifying the situation. I can see now, that stock removal is most likely. I have seen some shear steel blades that when etched gives an 'indication' that its wootz.

I also have to admit....that I 'flip out' ....if I believe any of my new aquisitions are wootz

Sadly, they never have been

....but maybe...just maybe.. the next one will be

The trouble is..being near the bottom of the 'collecting food chain', I have to rely on good pieces being 'missed'....the proverbial 'sleeper'.....an increasingly 'rare' occurance....still...I live in hope

Regards David

17th June 2008, 03:32 AM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hear is an Omani jambiya that sold today on ebay and it seems highly suspect to me. The embossing seems to be stamped out the blade for some reason was etched to give it a wootz effect but I can see no pattern and there is no central rib in the blade. The leather is newer looking without any wear. I would place this piece around 1970-80. The jambiya at the bottom also just finished on ebay and to me this one is a true older piece late 19th century. Notice the older style blade good quality silver work and good wear as if it had been carried a long time by it's original owner. http://cgi.ebay.com/19th-early-20th-...d=p3286.c0.m14 Lew Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 17th June 2008 at 03:50 AM.

17th June 2008, 05:53 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	The blade on the more recent Omani is very strange. There does seem to a central rib....all be it very 'unpronounced', the blade edges are rounded The 'wootz' pattern is very indistinct but is very fine, faked acid etched wootz is (AFAIK) much coarser and its surface 'ridged' The blade's mat grey apearance certainly suggests its been 'etched'...perhaps too agressively with a more consentrated acid ? If this blade is definately not wootz ....has someone deliberately or accidently create the 'look' of 'the possibility of wootz' In general I was informed that mid to late 20th C Jambiya's had sheet metal blades ie two halves welded/braised together. Is this the case for the mass majority manufactured at that time. As this blade looks 'solid'. Regards David Attached Images Last edited by katana; 18th June 2008 at 12:26 PM.

15th June 2008, 04:55 PM	#1
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	Very nice thread, thank you for sharing this information and photos. Regards Gonzalo

17th June 2008, 04:21 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Lew, I agree with you 200% That other newer one - BLEHHH!

17th June 2008, 05:16 PM	#4
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	It is amazing to me how many people seem to be searching for new antiques. When an antique looks old, many people are not interested. My guess is that the new example shown in the last few pictures was not too diferent in price from the one with obvious age. Josh

17th June 2008, 05:41 PM	#5
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Lew, Thank you for this well written and informative post! Teodor

17th June 2008, 06:23 PM	#7
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Dave Not all mid 20th century blades were made of two halfs welded together. This blade has a shallow diamond shaped grind to it and not a raised forged rib as seen in the other example. So this blade was probably made via stock removal. As far as I know Arabian,Yemen and Omani jambiya were never etched they always show a high degree of polish. This blade looks as if it was purposely etched or over etched to give the blade either a wootz look or at the least an older look. This seller often comes up with blades that have been recently etched just to show off a particular pattern even if it's shear steel so he can say it's damascus. It's like using the Zulu term on any African piece it seems to stir up higher prices people here the word wootz and they start to flip out. It's like Sy Syms always said "An educated consumer is our best bet" Lew

17th June 2008, 07:10 PM	#8
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Thanks Lew, for clarifying the situation. I can see now, that stock removal is most likely. I have seen some shear steel blades that when etched gives an 'indication' that its wootz. I also have to admit....that I 'flip out' ....if I believe any of my new aquisitions are wootz Sadly, they never have been ....but maybe...just maybe.. the next one will be The trouble is..being near the bottom of the 'collecting food chain', I have to rely on good pieces being 'missed'....the proverbial 'sleeper'.....an increasingly 'rare' occurance....still...I live in hope Regards David