Keris Found From A shipwreck

Federico · 26th March 2005, 07:24 PM

One thing to note, the division of SE Asia between Spain and Portugal lasted only until Spain bought out Portugal holdings. I dont have books in front of me, but if memory serves me right that was sometime in the mid to late 16th century. Later the Dutch move in and begin to displace this control, knocking the out of the Spice islands by around 1630. However, while national colonies ebb and flow, individual traders often were able to pass through strict lines (hey Magellan was Portugese). So perhaps the Portugese aspect is less Portugal as nation/colonial power, but rather individual commision, which would explain greater freedom to be in Spanish territory (of course this is counting that the ship was indeed built in PI). As for Bugis commissioning a ship in PI, possibly in the SE, eg. oft disputed Sarangani island, but anything more PI proper would have been difficult. Even this is difficult as the 16th century is a period of consolidation for groups in PI. Spain is consolidating its northern island colonies, Mindanao is consolidating under Sultan Kudurat and his father, Sulu's borders are also in flux. There is plenty of turmoil going on to make foreign trade dangerous, though it is not inconceivable a single rich trader could have something commissioned, but then if that trader was Bugis, why all the Portugese hallaballoo symbols. Then again, while the ship may have been built in PI, doesnt mean the crew would have been from PI perse. A rich foreign trader could have brought his crew with him. Also trade ports are full of foreigners, a recruiter would not have had a difficult time finding a crew of individuals who are looking for a way home, and willing to serve on a ship heading in the same direction. Malays from Brunei, ternate, and elsewhere would have been just a common occurence as Bugis. Anyways, just some ideas to chew on.

26th March 2005, 07:24 PM	#17
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	One thing to note, the division of SE Asia between Spain and Portugal lasted only until Spain bought out Portugal holdings. I dont have books in front of me, but if memory serves me right that was sometime in the mid to late 16th century. Later the Dutch move in and begin to displace this control, knocking the out of the Spice islands by around 1630. However, while national colonies ebb and flow, individual traders often were able to pass through strict lines (hey Magellan was Portugese). So perhaps the Portugese aspect is less Portugal as nation/colonial power, but rather individual commision, which would explain greater freedom to be in Spanish territory (of course this is counting that the ship was indeed built in PI). As for Bugis commissioning a ship in PI, possibly in the SE, eg. oft disputed Sarangani island, but anything more PI proper would have been difficult. Even this is difficult as the 16th century is a period of consolidation for groups in PI. Spain is consolidating its northern island colonies, Mindanao is consolidating under Sultan Kudurat and his father, Sulu's borders are also in flux. There is plenty of turmoil going on to make foreign trade dangerous, though it is not inconceivable a single rich trader could have something commissioned, but then if that trader was Bugis, why all the Portugese hallaballoo symbols. Then again, while the ship may have been built in PI, doesnt mean the crew would have been from PI perse. A rich foreign trader could have brought his crew with him. Also trade ports are full of foreigners, a recruiter would not have had a difficult time finding a crew of individuals who are looking for a way home, and willing to serve on a ship heading in the same direction. Malays from Brunei, ternate, and elsewhere would have been just a common occurence as Bugis. Anyways, just some ideas to chew on.