It certainly is very old ... but what is it ?

fernando · 27th May 2008, 11:19 PM

Thsnk you, Gentlemen!
Those were splendid aproaches to the subject.
I just wonder why this guy i visited the other day, who sells and collects weapons for a few decades, immediately catalogued it as a weapon ... actually a rural crude pike head. But of course the guy could be wrong and i am not going to act as if he were my local weapons guru ... enough of that fashion for the time being

In view of all that has been said and, pleasing Greeks and Trojans, i will provisionaly call it artitoolweaponfact ... or arteferramentarmafacto in portuguese

... if you allow me for the humour.
There is still one source i didn't yet consult, as it's a bit far from here and i only go there every now and then. He does not only know about ancient and old weapons, but also the most varied early ages artifacts. If this kind of things was ever seen around before, there is a great chance he is the one who saw them.
Untill then, all kinds of hints will be most wellcome.
Fernando

kronckew · 28th May 2008, 12:24 AM

i have visions of the invading hordes of napoleon plundering the countryside, and the local cowboy stalwarts beating their plowshares into lance heads and poking them back across the border into spain.

more seriously, didn't gauchos used to use a crude lance to control cattle in their drives. there are vague memories of reading somewhere the gauchos on their horses were the last to mount a proper lance (tacuara?) charge against modern armed troops down in so. america.

fernando · 28th May 2008, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

i have visions of the invading hordes of napoleon plundering the countryside, and the local cowboy stalwarts beating their plowshares into lance heads and poking them back across the border into spain...

For a vision, is not totally unreal, Wayne

.

A. G. Maisey · 28th May 2008, 12:56 AM

A cattle prod?

Yeah, I could see it as that.

Sounds good to me.

M ELEY · 29th May 2008, 02:16 AM

Wayne brings up a very plausible contender-one I had mentioned at the start of this thread. Problem is, I can't seem to find any material on these lances. I learned about them awhile back when I acquired a weird bowie knife with an inscription of a gaucho with said lance. It might have even had a spike butt cap, but don't recall. While researching them I learned about French cowboys of the Comarge region...always thought that sounded like a Monty Python script

kronckew · 29th May 2008, 08:00 AM

the only reference i've found was one that they called their 'emergency' lances tacuara, they were made by tying their knives to a length of sugar cane. the rider on the right in the photo i inserted above seems to be carrying one, the others seem to be carrying more normal lances with pennants. way back in pre-history when i was a younger, i think i read that gauchos sometimes used lances with removable points that they then carried in scabbards, but now that i could afford to buy one i also cannot find any references. the gaucho roamed from brazil down to argentina, so i assume some customs varied and changed over time.

27th May 2008, 11:19 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thsnk you, Gentlemen! Those were splendid aproaches to the subject. I just wonder why this guy i visited the other day, who sells and collects weapons for a few decades, immediately catalogued it as a weapon ... actually a rural crude pike head. But of course the guy could be wrong and i am not going to act as if he were my local weapons guru ... enough of that fashion for the time being In view of all that has been said and, pleasing Greeks and Trojans, i will provisionaly call it artitoolweaponfact ... or arteferramentarmafacto in portuguese ... if you allow me for the humour. There is still one source i didn't yet consult, as it's a bit far from here and i only go there every now and then. He does not only know about ancient and old weapons, but also the most varied early ages artifacts. If this kind of things was ever seen around before, there is a great chance he is the one who saw them. Untill then, all kinds of hints will be most wellcome. Fernando

28th May 2008, 12:24 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,249	i have visions of the invading hordes of napoleon plundering the countryside, and the local cowboy stalwarts beating their plowshares into lance heads and poking them back across the border into spain. more seriously, didn't gauchos used to use a crude lance to control cattle in their drives. there are vague memories of reading somewhere the gauchos on their horses were the last to mount a proper lance (tacuara?) charge against modern armed troops down in so. america.

28th May 2008, 12:56 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	A cattle prod? Yeah, I could see it as that. Sounds good to me.

29th May 2008, 02:16 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,196	Wayne brings up a very plausible contender-one I had mentioned at the start of this thread. Problem is, I can't seem to find any material on these lances. I learned about them awhile back when I acquired a weird bowie knife with an inscription of a gaucho with said lance. It might have even had a spike butt cap, but don't recall. While researching them I learned about French cowboys of the Comarge region...always thought that sounded like a Monty Python script

29th May 2008, 08:00 AM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,249	the only reference i've found was one that they called their 'emergency' lances tacuara, they were made by tying their knives to a length of sugar cane. the rider on the right in the photo i inserted above seems to be carrying one, the others seem to be carrying more normal lances with pennants. way back in pre-history when i was a younger, i think i read that gauchos sometimes used lances with removable points that they then carried in scabbards, but now that i could afford to buy one i also cannot find any references. the gaucho roamed from brazil down to argentina, so i assume some customs varied and changed over time.