Malela luk 5 for comment..

David · 27th May 2008, 02:37 PM

hmmm....charming you say Alan? I've got another word for it.

Well, first of all parong sari, i would strongly suggest you spend just a little more time "going through this forum". If you really had you might have discovered that we have quite a few members who not only specialize in Malaysian keris, but actually live there. You might also spend a little more time studying Indonesian keris as i think you have a few misconceptions about them as well. Keris that were made with talismanic purpose in mind were certainly not meant for display only. In fact, these keris weren't made to be shown about at all. They are a private matter. And many Indo keris were indeed made for fighting. If you have any doubts about that i have a few Jawa and Bali keris that i could "thrust into your belly button" as well if that's what it takes to prove a point.

I too am curious about the actual point of your post. I asked you some direct questions earlier in this thread after welcoming you to this forum which you have yet seen fit to answer. Do you have some personal stake in this keris?
Obviously there was much that your silat teachers failed to teach you, not just about keris but also about respect. And if the only purpose that you can see for the keris is as a means to do physical harm to another being then i think you missed some major points in your lesson plan on the art of keris.

parong sari · 27th May 2008, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

hmmm....charming you say Alan? I've got another word for it.

Well, first of all parong sari, i would strongly suggest you spend just a little more time "going through this forum". If you really had you might have discovered that we have quite a few members who not only specialize in Malaysian keris, but actually live there. You might also spend a little more time studying Indonesian keris as i think you have a few misconceptions about them as well. Keris that were made with talismanic purpose in mind were certainly not meant for display only. In fact, these keris weren't made to be shown about at all. They are a private matter. And many Indo keris were indeed made for fighting. If you have any doubts about that i have a few Jawa and Bali keris that i could "thrust into your belly button".

I too am curious about the point of your post. I asked you some direct questions earlier in this thread after welcoming you to this forum which you have yet to answer. Do you have some personal stake in this keris?
Obviously there was much that your silat teachers failed to teach you, not just about keris but also about respect. And if the only purpose that you can see for the keris is as a means to do physical harm to another being then i think you missed some major points in your lesson plan on the art of keris.

if you talk about talismanic purposes, in indonesia my friend, they don't only use kerises as an object, even nails are made being a talismanic object.. nothing special about that because if you are entering a discussion in the realm of misticsism, then i guess i'm sure that you are aware of the mystical power of "besi kuning", "Besi Badal" or "Besi Leleh" used for making a powerful talismatic keris.. i don't think i saw any of that "talismatic" keris is this forum..

Silat or pencak is the form of martial arts practiced in the indo-malay archipelago, and you will never see a pencak master in indonesia using a keris as a weapon!! you could even check in competition events where indonesian athletes are favour of using "parang" (which is most likely there official weapon) or try watching old indonesian silat movies.. my encounters with their guru even said that keris is not used for fighting but rather as a status, symbol, culture, bla..bla..bla.. which means they are NOT meant for fighting.. why have a keris when you don't know how to use them?? it's not about doing major harm but more on what intention you want to use it for, either to attack or counter attact..

i don't have any interest in this keris, it's just that i've been following this forum for quite a long time and suddenly had something to say.. and keris is not about respect my friend, it's a matter of life and death.. its a WEAPON, and in the old days, you only GET respect if you are a master in USING a keris, not by owning them.. and only because some people don't know how to use it, then go ahead, make it for display or 'talsimatic" it, that is if your guru taught you how to do it..

sorry for the rude introduction but for a little info, i'm from a little state in malaysia called perak..

p/s: you could try thrusting your baliness or javanese keris to my belly button, but like i said, if you don't know the art of keris then i can guarantee you it will only go through the belly button of the owner..

Raden Usman Djogja · 27th May 2008, 05:46 PM

Does anybody have information that there is a prominent Indo-Malay GURU of SILAT who does not have a keris?

David · 27th May 2008, 07:29 PM

Firstly Parong, everybody here gets respected, whether they are a master of using the keris as a weapon or not. I suggest you get agrasp of that or your stay here will be regrettably short.

I certainly agree with you that keris martial arts are not generally taught in Indonesian schools of silat. This does not, however, indicate that Indo keris were never used as weapons, that they weren't originally created to be a weapon. The keris in these area did evolve into more of a status and talismanic weapon, especially in Jawa. Other islands such as Bali and Sulawesi certainly used keris as a weapon much closer to the present. I have many examples that i assure you are weapon-ready. The history of the keris is not necessarily what your silat instructors have taught you. They have taught you what the keris in these regions have become, not what they were or what their original intention was.
You are also just a bit assuming that there are no silat students among the membership here. I can assure you that there are. I am sure most of the collectors here are familar with the proper grip for a keris and a few are also familiar with how to use them. However, this is not a silat board. This is a forum for collectors. If you have a problem with that, please move on. Please do not continue to further disrespect the members of this board with your admittedly rude manner. You are welcome to disagree with anyone's viewpoint, but in a civil and respectful way.

27th May 2008, 02:37 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	hmmm....charming you say Alan? I've got another word for it. Well, first of all parong sari, i would strongly suggest you spend just a little more time "going through this forum". If you really had you might have discovered that we have quite a few members who not only specialize in Malaysian keris, but actually live there. You might also spend a little more time studying Indonesian keris as i think you have a few misconceptions about them as well. Keris that were made with talismanic purpose in mind were certainly not meant for display only. In fact, these keris weren't made to be shown about at all. They are a private matter. And many Indo keris were indeed made for fighting. If you have any doubts about that i have a few Jawa and Bali keris that i could "thrust into your belly button" as well if that's what it takes to prove a point. I too am curious about the actual point of your post. I asked you some direct questions earlier in this thread after welcoming you to this forum which you have yet seen fit to answer. Do you have some personal stake in this keris? Obviously there was much that your silat teachers failed to teach you, not just about keris but also about respect. And if the only purpose that you can see for the keris is as a means to do physical harm to another being then i think you missed some major points in your lesson plan on the art of keris. Last edited by David; 27th May 2008 at 04:41 PM.

27th May 2008, 05:46 PM	#3
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	Does anybody have information that there is a prominent Indo-Malay GURU of SILAT who does not have a keris?

27th May 2008, 07:29 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Firstly Parong, everybody here gets respected, whether they are a master of using the keris as a weapon or not. I suggest you get agrasp of that or your stay here will be regrettably short. I certainly agree with you that keris martial arts are not generally taught in Indonesian schools of silat. This does not, however, indicate that Indo keris were never used as weapons, that they weren't originally created to be a weapon. The keris in these area did evolve into more of a status and talismanic weapon, especially in Jawa. Other islands such as Bali and Sulawesi certainly used keris as a weapon much closer to the present. I have many examples that i assure you are weapon-ready. The history of the keris is not necessarily what your silat instructors have taught you. They have taught you what the keris in these regions have become, not what they were or what their original intention was. You are also just a bit assuming that there are no silat students among the membership here. I can assure you that there are. I am sure most of the collectors here are familar with the proper grip for a keris and a few are also familiar with how to use them. However, this is not a silat board. This is a forum for collectors. If you have a problem with that, please move on. Please do not continue to further disrespect the members of this board with your admittedly rude manner. You are welcome to disagree with anyone's viewpoint, but in a civil and respectful way.