Machete from Span-Am war?

Gavin Nugent · 17th May 2008, 12:01 PM

There is a similar blade currently on you know where that is Mexican so I too would say Spanish American war, Cuban or Mexican origins but my initial thoughts without studying further were North African....

Gav

Gonzalo G · 23rd July 2008, 08:35 AM

I just found this thread. This is a variation of the spanish colonial machete used by the Ejército de Ultramar in Puerto Rico and Cuba, a model known as Guanabacoa. It seems a modified version, or a custom version. Please see this document:

http://www.catalogacionarmas.com/public/34-Ultramar.pdf

My best regards

Gonzalo

Jim McDougall · 24th July 2008, 12:10 AM

Gonzalo, that is a magnificent reference! Thank you for posting it as it clearly substantiates the Cuban attribution to these unusual fingerstalled weapons. I recall my first experience with one of these which I obtained about 13 years ago. It had provenance to Monterrey, Mexico and the blade was absolutely a blacksmith grade weapon with a heavy steel blade, unfullered, with these curvy motif stamps in repeated motif pattern most of its length.
With its provenance and heavy brass hilt with the same shape, fingerstalled and with crude shellguard and knucklebow added, much of the general thinking toward the piece was associated with the espada ancha of frontier regions in Mexico.

Some years later I was fortunate to have some good discussions with a former curator of an Arizona museum who indicated that one of these had once been among thier holdings, and the concensus was that it was from Cuba. In a catalog of a well known dealer whose name I will not note, there were two of these captioned as Algerian swords! Later, another of these turned up in an auction in London, listed as Mexican.

This reference seems excellent, and concurs with several other sources who claim these weapons, in some slight variations, were brought home by troops returning from the Spanish American war in both Cuba and the Philippines.

Thank you Gonzalo for the outstanding reference, which I can now add to my notes, and we can consider this one pretty much resolved

Nicely done, and the follow through very much appreciated.

All the best,
JIm

Gonzalo G · 25th July 2008, 05:29 AM

Thank YOU, Jim, for your continuous support.
My best regards

Gonzalo

machinist · 9th February 2015, 03:26 AM

I have purchased one of these Guanabacoa swords and thought I would add the pics and a little info to this thread, There is a book accessible online called The Annual Register of World Events that was supposedly published in 1805 about events of importance or interest happening in1803https://books.google.com/books?id=9Z...0sword&f=false

The description of the swords seems spot-on and that gives us a verifiable date for these and an implication they must have been used earlier in the 1700s as well as a description of who carried them and a bit of info on their lives.

The blade is stamped MARIAN and I am curious about all the little stamps these swords seem to carry.

mdp10003 · 10th February 2015, 01:50 AM

I have seen at least 2 examples like this that were attributed to the Philippines, but the references here do suggest that they are Cuban. The attribution to the Philippines did not seem to be strongly supported.

machinist · 10th February 2015, 02:43 AM

I think the attribution to the Philippines may be partially because it was such an unknown piece for many dealers and they had to come up with some provenance so why not the Philippines, and the attribution would carry on for years however some may have been carried far abroad as sailors and soldiers do travel.
I have seen several Chinese and south Asian spearheads offered as Spanish colonial And it is difficult to tell a sellers boosting of an object from an item that was brought here in olden days.
Here is another picture of a relatively more modern machete supposedly from Cuba patterned after the old style

17th May 2008, 12:01 PM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Similar blade There is a similar blade currently on you know where that is Mexican so I too would say Spanish American war, Cuban or Mexican origins but my initial thoughts without studying further were North African.... Gav

9th February 2015, 03:26 AM	#5
machinist Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 93	I have purchased one of these Guanabacoa swords and thought I would add the pics and a little info to this thread, There is a book accessible online called The Annual Register of World Events that was supposedly published in 1805 about events of importance or interest happening in1803https://books.google.com/books?id=9Z...0sword&f=false The description of the swords seems spot-on and that gives us a verifiable date for these and an implication they must have been used earlier in the 1700s as well as a description of who carried them and a bit of info on their lives. The blade is stamped MARIAN and I am curious about all the little stamps these swords seem to carry. Attached Images Last edited by machinist; 9th February 2015 at 03:40 AM.

10th February 2015, 02:43 AM	#7
machinist Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 93	I think the attribution to the Philippines may be partially because it was such an unknown piece for many dealers and they had to come up with some provenance so why not the Philippines, and the attribution would carry on for years however some may have been carried far abroad as sailors and soldiers do travel. I have seen several Chinese and south Asian spearheads offered as Spanish colonial And it is difficult to tell a sellers boosting of an object from an item that was brought here in olden days. Here is another picture of a relatively more modern machete supposedly from Cuba patterned after the old style Attached Images

23rd July 2008, 08:35 AM	#2
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	I just found this thread. This is a variation of the spanish colonial machete used by the Ejército de Ultramar in Puerto Rico and Cuba, a model known as Guanabacoa. It seems a modified version, or a custom version. Please see this document: http://www.catalogacionarmas.com/public/34-Ultramar.pdf My best regards Gonzalo

24th July 2008, 12:10 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Gonzalo, that is a magnificent reference! Thank you for posting it as it clearly substantiates the Cuban attribution to these unusual fingerstalled weapons. I recall my first experience with one of these which I obtained about 13 years ago. It had provenance to Monterrey, Mexico and the blade was absolutely a blacksmith grade weapon with a heavy steel blade, unfullered, with these curvy motif stamps in repeated motif pattern most of its length. With its provenance and heavy brass hilt with the same shape, fingerstalled and with crude shellguard and knucklebow added, much of the general thinking toward the piece was associated with the espada ancha of frontier regions in Mexico. Some years later I was fortunate to have some good discussions with a former curator of an Arizona museum who indicated that one of these had once been among thier holdings, and the concensus was that it was from Cuba. In a catalog of a well known dealer whose name I will not note, there were two of these captioned as Algerian swords! Later, another of these turned up in an auction in London, listed as Mexican. This reference seems excellent, and concurs with several other sources who claim these weapons, in some slight variations, were brought home by troops returning from the Spanish American war in both Cuba and the Philippines. Thank you Gonzalo for the outstanding reference, which I can now add to my notes, and we can consider this one pretty much resolved Nicely done, and the follow through very much appreciated. All the best, JIm

25th July 2008, 05:29 AM	#4
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	Thank YOU, Jim, for your continuous support. My best regards Gonzalo

10th February 2015, 01:50 AM	#6
mdp10003 Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 28	I have seen at least 2 examples like this that were attributed to the Philippines, but the references here do suggest that they are Cuban. The attribution to the Philippines did not seem to be strongly supported.