Bagobo sword

Ian · 6th February 2005, 10:50 PM

This one just finished on eBay. Uncommonly high price for this style of Bagobo sword (and without a scabbard which is usually well made and interesting).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7130937900

It seems that some of the Lumad edged weapons are following Moro pieces and climbing steeply in prices also.

Battara · 7th February 2005, 06:52 PM

There was another that had a scabbard bought by Naga Basuki (who beat me with a stick

) and that went for $500-600. I feel it would have gone for $700. These, especially Bagobo, are becoming rarer.

Ian · 7th February 2005, 08:07 PM

... they are becoming less common. But this one was not all that old judging from its general apperance (probably second half of the 20th C.). It lacked the usual hawk bells attached to the small rings at the end of the hilt, and the protruding "nub" at the very end of the pommel was not adorned with a metal ring or other embellishment (as seen on better quality pieces). Moreover, the brass ferrule/integrated guard was a rather poor fit to the wood pommel. Just seems like a high price to pay for an ordinary looking Bagobo hilt, an unremarkable blade, and no scabbard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

There was another that had a scabbard bought by Naga Basuki (who beat me with a stick

) and that went for $500-600. I feel it would have gone for $700. These, especially Bagobo, are becoming rarer.

Naga Basuki · 7th February 2005, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

There was another that had a scabbard bought by Naga Basuki (who beat me with a stick

) and that went for $500-600. I feel it would have gone for $700. These, especially Bagobo, are becoming rarer.

WAS THAT YOU who made me pay over $500? Well I do think that it was worth it! Does need some scabbard repair. Will send you some pics and maybe get your ideas or send it to you.

Battara · 8th February 2005, 02:53 AM

Yes Naga, that was me and that would be fine, I had plans to restore the missing brass nubs on the pommel and scabbard anyway.

Ian, I have a question. I have seen now a fair number of these that are missing the bottom and pommel brass nubs. Could they have come off over the years?

Ian · 8th February 2005, 03:06 PM

Battara:

They could have come off with handling or use, but I think many never had those brass ornaments in the first place. It may be a trend over time. The older ones, as seen in a number of older pictures of Bagobo warriors held by the Field Museum in Chicago, do show more brass on the hilts than what we see coming up on eBay and other sites today.

When swords do have the full complement of brass, they are usually higher end pieces with well forged blades. It could be that the level of ornamentation reflects the overall quality as well, which would not be not surprising.

Good Bagobo pieces are very elusive and we do not see them nearly as frequently as higher quality Moro or Visayan swords. I can see why the fairly ordinary Bagobo weapons attract substantial interest, although that interest is rather recent (and may relate somewhat to discussions on this Forum). Up until a few years ago, Lumad weapons were not very popular and as a result were inexpensive. These days in Manila the Lumad swords are more frequent and the asking prices have gone up considerably. Of course, this could reflect the scarcity of good Moro pieces coming out of Mindanao, and people are turning to the swords of other groups for their collections.

I have a nice older example and will take some new pictures to post here in a few days .

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Ian, I have a question. I have seen now a fair number of these that are missing the bottom and pommel brass nubs. Could they have come off over the years?

Ian · 12th February 2005, 09:33 PM

This one is at least 100 years old and is the best quality Bagobo sword I have handled. Note the precision with which the brass ferrule/guard has been fitted to the wood pommel; the decoration of the brass "nub" at the end of the hilt with the presence of small beads within the "nub" (a favorite Bagobo decoration); the excellent quality blade with fullers and a partly sharpened back edge; and the elaborately decorated scabbard with metal inserts, bifurcated toe, abaca textile wrap (worn smooth from handling), and bead decorations. The scabbard closely resembles examples shown in Krieger's plates, and the hilt is very similar to that of a Bagobo datu's sword shown in Dean Worcester's National Geographic (1913) article on Non-Christian Peoples of the Philippines Islands.

Battara · 13th February 2005, 02:24 PM

W

W! Beautiful puppy. Thanks Ian. I am looking for a similar piece. Not seen one since the last 2 on ebay. But this one is a great example. Good pictures.

mmontoro · 13th February 2005, 03:42 PM

Very nice, Ian. Great blade and scabbard. Is the false edge very sharp? I haven't seen an example whose blade wasn't the usual kampilan or deep-bellied bolo type.

Ian · 13th February 2005, 09:50 PM

Manny:

The partly sharpened back edge is indeed very sharp (as sharp as the primary edge). I think this is basically a variation on the kampilan blade -- definitely forward-weighted and designed for the same chopping action, although the sharpened back edge and tip would be effective for stabbing too.

Ian.

Ian · 25th February 2005, 08:46 PM

Pictures are now gone, but this was another one that sold recently on eBay. It was not 19th C. IMHO. These are just pouring out of Mindanao in the last few years.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6512899028

zelbone · 26th February 2005, 10:59 AM

One thing my collection is lacking are decent examples of Lumad swords. I might have to pick up some examples when I go to the Philippines.

Hey Ian,
Know of any good antique shops in Davao?

RSWORD · 26th February 2005, 01:49 PM

Gentleman

I had the pleasure of getting to handle this sword last night. It's new owner happens to be Battara. There are a few interesting features to the piece which definitely suggests it is not a second half of the 20th century, at least definitely not the blade. Jose had etched the blade and it turned out to be 2 panel twist core damascus with a high carbon edge. I think this is a very rare feature on non-Moro swords from the Philippines. I think that was a pleasant surprise. He had the hilt off of the sword and the tang has a nice blackish patina that would suggest the blade is most probably a 19th century blade. The hilt was a very nice burled wood and the brass ferrule/guard does actually fit the hilt tightly. (they were loose when he received the piece.) We are of the opinion that the hilt, while it may be newer than the blade, is not recent. I think he ended up with a great piece given the twist core blade and lovely hilt. Money well spent.

Pictures to come when he has a chance to take them.

Ian · 26th February 2005, 11:24 PM

Battara: Nice surprise with the blade. I will be interested to see the pictures and particularly close up details of the hilt and scabbard.

Zel: Don't have a single contact in Davao. The one person I knew there in antiques died several years ago and his stock was sold off. Sorry.

Ian.

tom hyle · 27th February 2005, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

Jose had etched the blade and it turned out to be 2 panel twist core damascus with a high carbon edge. I think this is a very rare feature on non-Moro swords from the Philippines.

Couple years ago it was thought a very rare feature on Moro swords....

Spunjer · 27th February 2005, 03:25 PM

saw battara's sword (bagobo) in person yesterday and indeed it has the twist core blade! beautiful piece.

zel,
your best bet in davao is Aldivenco for antique shops.

Battara · 1st March 2005, 05:10 AM

I may bring the piece to Timonium (I love show and tell

).

Spunger, glad to have met you and glad you came to the show.

Spunjer · 1st March 2005, 12:29 PM

likewise, jose. was really a pleasure just hanging out with you, rsword and manteris

Battara · 23rd March 2005, 07:21 PM

As promised, here are pictures of the bagobo sword after I restored it. I made the chain, the brass end cap (with beads) and etched the blade showing twist core. (sent to Lee for resizing).

Enjoy.

wilked aka Khun Deng · 25th March 2005, 12:58 PM

Beautiful Batara, Sorry I've been gone so long. I did get one day off to go sword shopping and here's what I picked up. Scabbards been repaired and the brass is really worn (handle is incredibly small). I especially liked the decoration added to the butt of the scabbard, don't know if you can make it out in the pictures, but it gave me a laugh when I was cleaning it and figured out what it was.

Battara · 25th March 2005, 06:52 PM

Can't tell from the pictures. What is it? Nice piece - don't you just love lamination?

Ian · 25th March 2005, 07:06 PM

Hi dan:

Good to have you back. That's a very nice example of the small kampilan probably prduced by the Tagakaolo (aka Kaolu) near Davao City in Mindanao. The Kaolu live adjacent to the Bagobo, and not surprisingly share weapons that are very similar in appearance. This could be a Bagobo sword, but the hilt is more consistent with the Kaolu, and there is no beadwork on the scabbard which is almost invariably present on Bagobo swords.

In the past, and perhaps on the old Forum, I would have called your example Bagobo, but I was informed of the distinction between Bagobo and Kaolu swords about two years ago. Many dealers still call these "Bagobo" because the Bagobo are a better known tribe (and their craftwork is considered better quality).

Ian.

wilked aka Khun Deng · 26th March 2005, 05:14 AM

Thanks for the corection Ian.

The decoration wrapped around the four posts are brass wire and ... a zipper!

Battara · 26th March 2005, 06:45 PM

A Zipper?

tom hyle · 26th March 2005, 06:57 PM

I love it! I remember getting an old African sword whose handle wrap was a 1/2-melted wonderbread bag, then there's the PI sword I had whose pommel nut turned out to be the dial from a Eurotype oil lamp.

paolo · 23rd September 2007, 11:17 AM

Hi all,
I wish know Your opinion about my one (not so beautyful like Yours). Above all I would like to know about its age and its quality.
Thank You for any help
Paolo

6th February 2005, 10:50 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Bagobo sword This one just finished on eBay. Uncommonly high price for this style of Bagobo sword (and without a scabbard which is usually well made and interesting). http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7130937900 It seems that some of the Lumad edged weapons are following Moro pieces and climbing steeply in prices also.

8th February 2005, 02:53 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Yes Naga, that was me and that would be fine, I had plans to restore the missing brass nubs on the pommel and scabbard anyway. Ian, I have a question. I have seen now a fair number of these that are missing the bottom and pommel brass nubs. Could they have come off over the years? Last edited by Battara; 8th February 2005 at 03:06 AM.

12th February 2005, 09:33 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	An old Bagobo sword This one is at least 100 years old and is the best quality Bagobo sword I have handled. Note the precision with which the brass ferrule/guard has been fitted to the wood pommel; the decoration of the brass "nub" at the end of the hilt with the presence of small beads within the "nub" (a favorite Bagobo decoration); the excellent quality blade with fullers and a partly sharpened back edge; and the elaborately decorated scabbard with metal inserts, bifurcated toe, abaca textile wrap (worn smooth from handling), and bead decorations. The scabbard closely resembles examples shown in Krieger's plates, and the hilt is very similar to that of a Bagobo datu's sword shown in Dean Worcester's National Geographic (1913) article on Non-Christian Peoples of the Philippines Islands. Attached Images Last edited by Ian; 13th February 2005 at 08:29 AM.

25th February 2005, 08:46 PM	#11
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Another one Pictures are now gone, but this was another one that sold recently on eBay. It was not 19th C. IMHO. These are just pouring out of Mindanao in the last few years. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6512899028

26th February 2005, 11:24 PM	#14
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Battara: Nice surprise with the blade. I will be interested to see the pictures and particularly close up details of the hilt and scabbard. Zel: Don't have a single contact in Davao. The one person I knew there in antiques died several years ago and his stock was sold off. Sorry. Ian. Last edited by Ian; 27th February 2005 at 12:58 AM.

7th February 2005, 06:52 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	There was another that had a scabbard bought by Naga Basuki (who beat me with a stick ) and that went for $500-600. I feel it would have gone for $700. These, especially Bagobo, are becoming rarer.

13th February 2005, 02:24 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	W W! Beautiful puppy. Thanks Ian. I am looking for a similar piece. Not seen one since the last 2 on ebay. But this one is a great example. Good pictures.

13th February 2005, 03:42 PM	#9
mmontoro Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 91	Very nice, Ian. Great blade and scabbard. Is the false edge very sharp? I haven't seen an example whose blade wasn't the usual kampilan or deep-bellied bolo type.

13th February 2005, 09:50 PM	#10
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Manny: The partly sharpened back edge is indeed very sharp (as sharp as the primary edge). I think this is basically a variation on the kampilan blade -- definitely forward-weighted and designed for the same chopping action, although the sharpened back edge and tip would be effective for stabbing too. Ian.

26th February 2005, 10:59 AM	#12
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	One thing my collection is lacking are decent examples of Lumad swords. I might have to pick up some examples when I go to the Philippines. Hey Ian, Know of any good antique shops in Davao?

26th February 2005, 01:49 PM	#13
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	Gentleman I had the pleasure of getting to handle this sword last night. It's new owner happens to be Battara. There are a few interesting features to the piece which definitely suggests it is not a second half of the 20th century, at least definitely not the blade. Jose had etched the blade and it turned out to be 2 panel twist core damascus with a high carbon edge. I think this is a very rare feature on non-Moro swords from the Philippines. I think that was a pleasant surprise. He had the hilt off of the sword and the tang has a nice blackish patina that would suggest the blade is most probably a 19th century blade. The hilt was a very nice burled wood and the brass ferrule/guard does actually fit the hilt tightly. (they were loose when he received the piece.) We are of the opinion that the hilt, while it may be newer than the blade, is not recent. I think he ended up with a great piece given the twist core blade and lovely hilt. Money well spent. Pictures to come when he has a chance to take them.

27th February 2005, 03:25 PM	#16
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	saw battara's sword (bagobo) in person yesterday and indeed it has the twist core blade! beautiful piece. zel, your best bet in davao is Aldivenco for antique shops.

1st March 2005, 05:10 AM	#17
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	I may bring the piece to Timonium (I love show and tell ). Spunger, glad to have met you and glad you came to the show.

1st March 2005, 12:29 PM	#18
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	likewise, jose. was really a pleasure just hanging out with you, rsword and manteris

23rd March 2005, 07:21 PM	#19
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	As promised, here are pictures of the bagobo sword after I restored it. I made the chain, the brass end cap (with beads) and etched the blade showing twist core. (sent to Lee for resizing). Enjoy. Attached Images Last edited by Lee Jones; 25th March 2005 at 12:47 PM.

25th March 2005, 12:58 PM	#20
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Another bagobo Beautiful Batara, Sorry I've been gone so long. I did get one day off to go sword shopping and here's what I picked up. Scabbards been repaired and the brass is really worn (handle is incredibly small). I especially liked the decoration added to the butt of the scabbard, don't know if you can make it out in the pictures, but it gave me a laugh when I was cleaning it and figured out what it was. Attached Images

25th March 2005, 06:52 PM	#21
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Can't tell from the pictures. What is it? Nice piece - don't you just love lamination?

25th March 2005, 07:06 PM	#22
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Hi dan: Good to have you back. That's a very nice example of the small kampilan probably prduced by the Tagakaolo (aka Kaolu) near Davao City in Mindanao. The Kaolu live adjacent to the Bagobo, and not surprisingly share weapons that are very similar in appearance. This could be a Bagobo sword, but the hilt is more consistent with the Kaolu, and there is no beadwork on the scabbard which is almost invariably present on Bagobo swords. In the past, and perhaps on the old Forum, I would have called your example Bagobo, but I was informed of the distinction between Bagobo and Kaolu swords about two years ago. Many dealers still call these "Bagobo" because the Bagobo are a better known tribe (and their craftwork is considered better quality). Ian.

26th March 2005, 05:14 AM	#23
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Thanks for the corection Ian. The decoration wrapped around the four posts are brass wire and ... a zipper!

26th March 2005, 06:45 PM	#24
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	A Zipper?

26th March 2005, 06:57 PM	#25
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I love it! I remember getting an old African sword whose handle wrap was a 1/2-melted wonderbread bag, then there's the PI sword I had whose pommel nut turned out to be the dial from a Eurotype oil lamp.

23rd September 2007, 11:17 AM	#26
paolo Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 173	Hi all, I wish know Your opinion about my one (not so beautyful like Yours). Above all I would like to know about its age and its quality. Thank You for any help Paolo Attached Images