It certainly is very old ... but what is it ?

fernando · 9th May 2008, 01:01 AM

Well David,
My english was learnt in the streets; it's only mediocre because i keep checking it in the dictionary ... or in the web

.
It's amazing how different eyes can see distinct things

I don't think that's a nail mark at all; there's no countermark on the other side. What i see there is some kind of punch, like a maker's mark or symbol of some kind. That´s precisely the first sympthom that made me think this thing is European

.
... Plus the the iron structure, namely the socket; wouldn't African stuff be thinner ?
Fernando

katana · 9th May 2008, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

... Plus the the iron structure, namely the socket; wouldn't African stuff be thinner ?
Fernando

Hi Fernando,
I have an old African spear which has 'heavy' socketted butt and spearhead.....so the 'thickness' doesn't mean it can't be African. You have to bear in mind that the butt aids the balance of the spear, even if it is not a 'throwing' type ( 'hand held' spears tend to have heavy 'heads' ) A balanced spear makes it much easier to use in combat (for the same reasons as a nicely 'balanced' sword would)

Could you post a 'close-up' picture of the 'rivet marking' ?

Regards David

Lew · 9th May 2008, 09:32 PM

The markings on the this spear thing seems North African to me? The Xs with the line through them often symbolize a stylized crocodile which are used by the tribes who live along the Nile in the Sudan and Egypt.

Lew

fernando · 9th May 2008, 11:26 PM

This is the best i can get with my tired digital camera

.
Two shots from the mark side and one from the opposite side.
This afternoon i visited someone much more enlightened than me in these things. He is pritty much convinced this piece is a locally made rustic haft weapon (pike) head ... not a butt, nor an African item

.
On the other hand, he doesn't think this mark in the pictures is something intentional.

fernando · 11th May 2008, 01:25 AM

I am still intrigued with that misterious sort of mark. Althought this guy i met doesn't beleive it was made intentionally, i find it dificult to be an accidental flaw. But what do i know ?
No further coments, Gentlemen ?
I would love to hear more about its tendence to be European or African, after all that has been said, as also your opinions about it being (or not) a pike (or sort of) head.
Thans a lot.

M ELEY · 14th May 2008, 12:10 AM

Sorry...was away and just stumbled onto this thread. This is a Spanish colonial lance head with classic criss-cross markings and stars in the pre-Mexico styling. These markings are exactly like those found on several of my colonial cutlass (see Pirate weapons thread). I've seen several of these over the years and initially thought they might have been more South American in nature. Guachos used a primative lance with heads like this one. I know I saw one somewhere recently. Let me look around...

M ELEY · 14th May 2008, 12:17 AM

Well, not the good one I saw several months ago with similar decorations, but still, an example...
www.antiqueswords.com/bq943.htm

9th May 2008, 09:32 PM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	The markings on the this spear thing seems North African to me? The Xs with the line through them often symbolize a stylized crocodile which are used by the tribes who live along the Nile in the Sudan and Egypt. Lew Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 9th May 2008 at 10:13 PM.

9th May 2008, 11:26 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	This is the best i can get with my tired digital camera . Two shots from the mark side and one from the opposite side. This afternoon i visited someone much more enlightened than me in these things. He is pritty much convinced this piece is a locally made rustic haft weapon (pike) head ... not a butt, nor an African item . On the other hand, he doesn't think this mark in the pictures is something intentional. Attached Images

9th May 2008, 01:01 AM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Well David, My english was learnt in the streets; it's only mediocre because i keep checking it in the dictionary ... or in the web . It's amazing how different eyes can see distinct things I don't think that's a nail mark at all; there's no countermark on the other side. What i see there is some kind of punch, like a maker's mark or symbol of some kind. That´s precisely the first sympthom that made me think this thing is European . ... Plus the the iron structure, namely the socket; wouldn't African stuff be thinner ? Fernando

11th May 2008, 01:25 AM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I am still intrigued with that misterious sort of mark. Althought this guy i met doesn't beleive it was made intentionally, i find it dificult to be an accidental flaw. But what do i know ? No further coments, Gentlemen ? I would love to hear more about its tendence to be European or African, after all that has been said, as also your opinions about it being (or not) a pike (or sort of) head. Thans a lot.

14th May 2008, 12:10 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,196	Sorry...was away and just stumbled onto this thread. This is a Spanish colonial lance head with classic criss-cross markings and stars in the pre-Mexico styling. These markings are exactly like those found on several of my colonial cutlass (see Pirate weapons thread). I've seen several of these over the years and initially thought they might have been more South American in nature. Guachos used a primative lance with heads like this one. I know I saw one somewhere recently. Let me look around...

14th May 2008, 12:17 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,196	Well, not the good one I saw several months ago with similar decorations, but still, an example... www.antiqueswords.com/bq943.htm