Silver mounted badek for coments

Gonzalo G · 30th April 2008, 08:05 PM

I agree with you, Tim. I find the scytian work specially good. Their mastery over this technique is incredible.

A. G. Maisey · 1st May 2008, 12:40 AM

Fernando, I really see no problem with terminology at all.

Tim has given us the meanings of the terms, as they are used in the trade.

Gonzalo has reinforced Tim's explanation with a further trade reference.

I have given the meanings as they would be understood by an educated native English speaker who is not a silversmith or jeweller.

The link I provided in an earlier post sets out a very clear explanation:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repouss%C3%A9_and_chasing

In common usage, I believe most native English speakers would refer to the work as "embossed". Although not strictly correct, this is completely acceptable, and incidentally comes close to your "stamped" meaning. Modern English grammar is concerned more with the way in which words are generally used, than with strict dictionary meanings.

However, what is of interest here is the opinion of your jeweller consultant that this work was done from the inside of the scabbard.

To my knowledge, the skill to create this motif from the inside of the scabbard has never existed in Jawa, nor in Indonesia. I am very familiar with this type of work, and it is done from the outside, after the scabbard has been fabricated. Tim, who is a skilled craftsman in this work, seems to be also of the opinion that it has been done from the outside.

Gonzalo G · 1st May 2008, 05:20 PM

I agree with this.

fernando · 1st May 2008, 07:48 PM

Absolutely Alan,
As i said, the guy is not a smith.
I can further say that, if i had to choose an option, i would obviously follow your exposition which, above all, is backed by experienced observation.
But i confess that, having been self influenced by the "repousse" aproach done by the various ( four?) members, and so having been "arrested" by the projection of the term, i was predisposed to easily beleive the guy when he said that the punching on the discussed scabbard was done ( at least partially) from the inside. To tell the truth, i still look at it and still don't reject such idea

.
Wasn't it Jesus thas said: the worst blind is the one that doesn't want to see?

1st May 2008, 07:48 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Absolutely Alan, As i said, the guy is not a smith. I can further say that, if i had to choose an option, i would obviously follow your exposition which, above all, is backed by experienced observation. But i confess that, having been self influenced by the "repousse" aproach done by the various ( four?) members, and so having been "arrested" by the projection of the term, i was predisposed to easily beleive the guy when he said that the punching on the discussed scabbard was done ( at least partially) from the inside. To tell the truth, i still look at it and still don't reject such idea . Wasn't it Jesus thas said: the worst blind is the one that doesn't want to see? Last edited by fernando; 1st May 2008 at 11:20 PM.

30th April 2008, 08:05 PM	#1
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	I agree with you, Tim. I find the scytian work specially good. Their mastery over this technique is incredible.

1st May 2008, 12:40 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Fernando, I really see no problem with terminology at all. Tim has given us the meanings of the terms, as they are used in the trade. Gonzalo has reinforced Tim's explanation with a further trade reference. I have given the meanings as they would be understood by an educated native English speaker who is not a silversmith or jeweller. The link I provided in an earlier post sets out a very clear explanation:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repouss%C3%A9_and_chasing In common usage, I believe most native English speakers would refer to the work as "embossed". Although not strictly correct, this is completely acceptable, and incidentally comes close to your "stamped" meaning. Modern English grammar is concerned more with the way in which words are generally used, than with strict dictionary meanings. However, what is of interest here is the opinion of your jeweller consultant that this work was done from the inside of the scabbard. To my knowledge, the skill to create this motif from the inside of the scabbard has never existed in Jawa, nor in Indonesia. I am very familiar with this type of work, and it is done from the outside, after the scabbard has been fabricated. Tim, who is a skilled craftsman in this work, seems to be also of the opinion that it has been done from the outside.

1st May 2008, 05:20 PM	#3
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	I agree with this.