Silver mounted badek for coments

Gonzalo G · 25th April 2008, 11:31 PM

Fernando, first of all, I didn´t congratulate you for this beautiful piece before, but I do it now. It is a very nice piece of work.

Thank you for your comments about the silver work. It happens that I studied some silversmithing and have some intimate understanding of this craft. The silversmiths in some places of Latin América uses to make hilts and scabbards of chiseled silver in the same ways than in this badik is done. We make the scabbards, fill them with a special mixture of waxes and asphaltic resin, fixi the the scabbards in a box filled with the same mixture and then chisel them from above. I mean, the work is not done from inside, or it would be called "repousee". We make the volumes and the "levels" from upside. I checked with my friends, more experienced silversmiths, and they confirmed me this bandik and scabbard was only chiseled, meaning worked form above. But as Battara says, it could be better called "chasing", as the meaning of "chiselling" has another connotations in english. The point is that the work is done from above and not from the inside. I know what do you mean by a reposee type of work, but I think this is not the case. Please see this page, where you can find illustrations of hilts and scabards chased in this way, entirely form above with the scabbard already formed and soldered:

http://www.malamudorfebre.com/english/cuchillos-en.htm

And as you say, between steps the work is reheated and then suddenly dipped in cold water with some nitric or sulphuric acid, in order to soften the metal, the acid being useful to clean it´s surface.

Thank you for your attention

Gonzalo

fernando · 26th April 2008, 12:20 AM

Does it help (or complicates) to show this example ?
... Both for the silver decoration, that looks partly a similar work to my ignorant eyes, as also for the blade, that somehow reminds me the one show by Alan in post #17 ... naturally influenced by the date marking attitude.
Most probably you already knew this specimen, shown here.
http://old.blades.free.fr/daggers/badik/bad03/bad03.htm
Fernando

kai · 26th April 2008, 10:59 PM

Hello Fernando,

The blades of Alan's and Dominque's badik are made from Dutch VOC swords - possibly the blades of broken colonial swords got recycled and given a 2nd life while your nice piece has a Javanese pamor blade.

Regards,
Kai

fernando · 27th April 2008, 12:14 AM

Hi Kai,
I understand that, although my intention was to remark an eventual familiarity between those blades, this has nothing in common with my example, which is of local production.
I have registered this piece of mine as being from the Sulawesi island; should i change it to Jawa, or is this an indiferent situation ?
Thanks.
Fernando

26th April 2008, 12:20 AM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Does it help (or complicates) to show this example ? ... Both for the silver decoration, that looks partly a similar work to my ignorant eyes, as also for the blade, that somehow reminds me the one show by Alan in post #17 ... naturally influenced by the date marking attitude. Most probably you already knew this specimen, shown here. http://old.blades.free.fr/daggers/badik/bad03/bad03.htm Fernando Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 26th April 2008 at 01:43 PM.

25th April 2008, 11:31 PM	#1
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	Fernando, first of all, I didn´t congratulate you for this beautiful piece before, but I do it now. It is a very nice piece of work. Thank you for your comments about the silver work. It happens that I studied some silversmithing and have some intimate understanding of this craft. The silversmiths in some places of Latin América uses to make hilts and scabbards of chiseled silver in the same ways than in this badik is done. We make the scabbards, fill them with a special mixture of waxes and asphaltic resin, fixi the the scabbards in a box filled with the same mixture and then chisel them from above. I mean, the work is not done from inside, or it would be called "repousee". We make the volumes and the "levels" from upside. I checked with my friends, more experienced silversmiths, and they confirmed me this bandik and scabbard was only chiseled, meaning worked form above. But as Battara says, it could be better called "chasing", as the meaning of "chiselling" has another connotations in english. The point is that the work is done from above and not from the inside. I know what do you mean by a reposee type of work, but I think this is not the case. Please see this page, where you can find illustrations of hilts and scabards chased in this way, entirely form above with the scabbard already formed and soldered: http://www.malamudorfebre.com/english/cuchillos-en.htm And as you say, between steps the work is reheated and then suddenly dipped in cold water with some nitric or sulphuric acid, in order to soften the metal, the acid being useful to clean it´s surface. Thank you for your attention Gonzalo

26th April 2008, 10:59 PM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Fernando, The blades of Alan's and Dominque's badik are made from Dutch VOC swords - possibly the blades of broken colonial swords got recycled and given a 2nd life while your nice piece has a Javanese pamor blade. Regards, Kai

27th April 2008, 12:14 AM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Kai, I understand that, although my intention was to remark an eventual familiarity between those blades, this has nothing in common with my example, which is of local production. I have registered this piece of mine as being from the Sulawesi island; should i change it to Jawa, or is this an indiferent situation ? Thanks. Fernando