End of sword collecting in the UK

[Tim Simmons]

We need a real lawyer to expand on this point, especially when a venue has third party insurance.

“historical re-enactment” means any presentation or other event held for the purpose of re-enacting an event from the past or of illustrating conduct from a particular time or period in the past;

A militeria fair or exposition would include-

"illustrating conduct from a particular time or period in the past"

So as I read it, if the venue is an organised event with the necessary insurance in place the purchase and sale of ww1 and ww2 items should be okay. It means that you just cannot pick the things up anywhere anytime from anybody unless they are less than 50cm from tip to handle in a straight line? In this I can see a vain attempt to stop the opportunist use of a longish sharp sword.

[spiral]

Try BritishBlades law section Tim, it full of lawyers & policemen as well as the commoners who have been discusimg this for months.

Spiral

[Tim Simmons]

Thanks for that. I gave it a try. Ignoring all the emotional stuff one good thing I could glean from ask a COP is that COPS work on discretion. So at my next militeria fair of which there are two organisers, held roughly quarterly in my local. Both almost adjacent to the respective COP shop. When I attend the next event I will see if the police raid it like a speakeasy. There will be one coming up soon i'll pass on my findings. If I a not in chains .

[spiral]

Good, glad it helped Tim,

Cops do work on discretion, but the cops on that forum collect knives, most police dont.

They will let off a fisherman or camper on his way home with a fixed blade, many police wont, or ignore a leatherman as long as your not wearing a basball cap & talking with a Liverpool accent.

But good luck! I would love this law not to be inforced, but somehow I doubt it in the long run.

PCs have arrest quotas to fill know a days & most police dont like knives never mind swords.

Spiral

[kronckew]

OK, here it is the day after doomsday1 with doomsday2 in October.

has anyone seen the official law yet? all i can find is the 'proposed' law, and the joke 'consultation'.

i'm assuming that in spite of that, all vendors are assuming the worst and refusing to sell anything (like ebay) till it gets clarified and a bit clearer than the current mud...

i see the home office says

1. 'don't ask us, we just make the law, we don't interpret it - ask your solicitor'.
2. the solicitors say, don't know, we haven't seen the final law yet, we'll have to ask the home office.
3. goto 1

i still do not see why they wasted all that time on a new law that they themselves admit was covered by earlier legislation. i know they have better things to do, i just wish they knew they did.

[Mark]

The "sport" exception is interesting. It presumably is aimed at rapier & sabre fencing, but it should cover just about any martial art with a weapons for, no? Iaito, bando, escrima, selat, etc., etc. What does paragraph 1(r) describe?

Also, I wonder how much "activity" is required in order to be considered "sporting activity?" Maybe if you put on warm-ups and take your swords out back or down into the cellar and swing it a few times you are OK. Specify in a sale that it is for use in "sporting activity." Vague language is a two-way street, fortunately.

[spiral]

Mark , Sport covers most publicliy insured martial arts venues & teaching groups I would say, But vagnes of law which might be usefull in USA, means in England, you can be arrested for nearly any curved sword & a judge will decide & direct a jury in the manner he see fit.

Thats why today carrying a Leatherman in England gets one arrested for carrying an offensive weapon. {because a judge directed it so as a locking blade equaeled a fixed blade & was therfore illegal.} {Sadley 95% of police enforce the law in that manner as well.}

I have a 50 year old, one inch long blade mechanikal locking knife {by an unusual patented design.} that fits on a key ring & that i use to open parcels. It is illegal to carry outside my front door in the UK.

Spiral

[spiral]

Heres some more info on the new law from the UK knife collectors & traders association.

spiral

linky

[wolviex]

Buhahaha - this is England. If you're asking what will be banned next, here is the answer:

link


And by the way. According to the explanation, provided by the link above, all swords over 100 years old (so labeled as antique) are legal, aren't they? The other thing is to prove their age..., but it doesn't mean end of collecting then.

regards!

[Mark]

They do the same thing in the US, depending on which way the political wind blows and whose courtroom you are in. Interpret broadly or narrowly, depending on what social engineering result you are after. We may have more lee-way for attorney argument to swing things one way or the other, dispite what the judge wants.

Originally Posted by spiral

Mark , Sport covers most publicliy insured martial arts venues & teaching groups I would say, But vagnes of law which might be usefull in USA, means in England, you can be arrested for nearly any curved sword & a judge will decide & direct a jury in the manner he see fit.

Thats why today carrying a Leatherman in England gets one arrested for carrying an offensive weapon. {because a judge directed it so as a locking blade equaeled a fixed blade & was therfore illegal.} {Sadley 95% of police enforce the law in that manner as well.}

I have a 50 year old, one inch long blade mechanikal locking knife {by an unusual patented design.} that fits on a key ring & that i use to open parcels. It is illegal to carry outside my front door in the UK.

Spiral

[Lew]

Soon the moron lawmakers will ban cricket bats, broom handles,hammers,pointy sticks and what ever else that can be used to do bodily harm You will always have a problem with gangs and hot headed young people who decide to settle their differences through violence. Making collectors of historical arms into criminals will not stop the trouble makers they will always find a way to the crime. I feel the law makers in the UK are slowly slipping down a dangerous slope here. You see how effectively the switch blade ban of the 1950s here in the USA worked gang members no longer use them they have graduated to 9mm pistols and assaut rifles

Lew

[kronckew]

guns are of course illegal for the common man over here, with few exceptions; two thugs break into your home for the second time in as many weeks & you shoot one of them, you get to go away for a few years, even tho they had baseball bats they intended to use on you. catch a burglar about to enter your childs room & grab a steak knife out of the sink as you both go thru the kitchen as he tries to get away by hitting & kicking you & you stab him, it's assault with a deadly weapon and possession of an offensive weapon for you. the criminal in these can also sue you for damages sustained during the commission of your illegal assault on them. (the first case, after the farmer got out of jail, his 'victim' who had been shot in the leg sued him for loss of earnings in his career as a burglar, and may have won except he was filmed running across a road to get to court - not quite as disabled as his cane & poorly leg performance in court was supposed to show - that was too much even for the liberal press here & he dropped the case after being laughed at by all)

oh, and since the ban on firearms, they cannot understand why the use of them in crimes continues to rise sharply.