End of sword collecting in the UK

[Kate]

Sorry chaps there is no exemption of "antique". Even if there were, there are many of us who collect named regimental blades of WW1
Please see the Act -

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/dra...110810324_en_1

Very simple - all banned except Japanese made!

[spiral]

No thats an over simplification Kate!

Its an ammendment to the offensive weapons act, the antique exemption to this ammendment are already written in that act.


The new ammended exceptions to the sword part are....

5. For the purposes of paragraph 4—

“historical re-enactment” means any presentation or other event held for the purpose of re-enacting an event from the past or of illustrating conduct from a particular time or period in the past;
“insurance” means a contract of insurance or other arrangement made for the purpose of indemnifying a person or persons named in the contract or under the arrangement;
“permitted activity” means an historical re-enactment or a sporting activity;
“sporting activity” means the practising of a sport which requires the use of a weapon described in paragraph 1(r);
“third parties” includes participants in, and spectators of, a permitted activity and members of the public.


To use your own words "its that simple!" Or more complicated than it seems at first perhaps!

But in 10 years time you might be right.

Spiral

[Tim Simmons]

We need a real lawyer to expand on this point, especially when a venue has third party insurance.

“historical re-enactment” means any presentation or other event held for the purpose of re-enacting an event from the past or of illustrating conduct from a particular time or period in the past;

A militeria fair or exposition would include-

"illustrating conduct from a particular time or period in the past"

So as I read it, if the venue is an organised event with the necessary insurance in place the purchase and sale of ww1 and ww2 items should be okay. It means that you just cannot pick the things up anywhere anytime from anybody unless they are less than 50cm from tip to handle in a straight line? In this I can see a vain attempt to stop the opportunist use of a longish sharp sword.

[spiral]

Try BritishBlades law section Tim, it full of lawyers & policemen as well as the commoners who have been discusimg this for months.

Spiral

[Tim Simmons]

Thanks for that. I gave it a try. Ignoring all the emotional stuff one good thing I could glean from ask a COP is that COPS work on discretion. So at my next militeria fair of which there are two organisers, held roughly quarterly in my local. Both almost adjacent to the respective COP shop. When I attend the next event I will see if the police raid it like a speakeasy. There will be one coming up soon i'll pass on my findings. If I a not in chains .

[spiral]

Good, glad it helped Tim,

Cops do work on discretion, but the cops on that forum collect knives, most police dont.

They will let off a fisherman or camper on his way home with a fixed blade, many police wont, or ignore a leatherman as long as your not wearing a basball cap & talking with a Liverpool accent.

But good luck! I would love this law not to be inforced, but somehow I doubt it in the long run.

PCs have arrest quotas to fill know a days & most police dont like knives never mind swords.

Spiral

[kronckew]

OK, here it is the day after doomsday1 with doomsday2 in October.

has anyone seen the official law yet? all i can find is the 'proposed' law, and the joke 'consultation'.

i'm assuming that in spite of that, all vendors are assuming the worst and refusing to sell anything (like ebay) till it gets clarified and a bit clearer than the current mud...

i see the home office says

1. 'don't ask us, we just make the law, we don't interpret it - ask your solicitor'.
2. the solicitors say, don't know, we haven't seen the final law yet, we'll have to ask the home office.
3. goto 1

i still do not see why they wasted all that time on a new law that they themselves admit was covered by earlier legislation. i know they have better things to do, i just wish they knew they did.

[Mark]

The "sport" exception is interesting. It presumably is aimed at rapier & sabre fencing, but it should cover just about any martial art with a weapons for, no? Iaito, bando, escrima, selat, etc., etc. What does paragraph 1(r) describe?

Also, I wonder how much "activity" is required in order to be considered "sporting activity?" Maybe if you put on warm-ups and take your swords out back or down into the cellar and swing it a few times you are OK. Specify in a sale that it is for use in "sporting activity." Vague language is a two-way street, fortunately.

[spiral]

Mark , Sport covers most publicliy insured martial arts venues & teaching groups I would say, But vagnes of law which might be usefull in USA, means in England, you can be arrested for nearly any curved sword & a judge will decide & direct a jury in the manner he see fit.

Thats why today carrying a Leatherman in England gets one arrested for carrying an offensive weapon. {because a judge directed it so as a locking blade equaeled a fixed blade & was therfore illegal.} {Sadley 95% of police enforce the law in that manner as well.}

I have a 50 year old, one inch long blade mechanikal locking knife {by an unusual patented design.} that fits on a key ring & that i use to open parcels. It is illegal to carry outside my front door in the UK.

Spiral

[spiral]

Heres some more info on the new law from the UK knife collectors & traders association.

spiral

linky

[Mark]

They do the same thing in the US, depending on which way the political wind blows and whose courtroom you are in. Interpret broadly or narrowly, depending on what social engineering result you are after. We may have more lee-way for attorney argument to swing things one way or the other, dispite what the judge wants.

Originally Posted by spiral

Mark , Sport covers most publicliy insured martial arts venues & teaching groups I would say, But vagnes of law which might be usefull in USA, means in England, you can be arrested for nearly any curved sword & a judge will decide & direct a jury in the manner he see fit.

Thats why today carrying a Leatherman in England gets one arrested for carrying an offensive weapon. {because a judge directed it so as a locking blade equaeled a fixed blade & was therfore illegal.} {Sadley 95% of police enforce the law in that manner as well.}

I have a 50 year old, one inch long blade mechanikal locking knife {by an unusual patented design.} that fits on a key ring & that i use to open parcels. It is illegal to carry outside my front door in the UK.

Spiral