Ideas?

Marcokeris · 4th March 2008, 07:58 AM

Fom Holstein book (1931) another keris hilt with a similar posture

Gavin Nugent · 4th March 2008, 12:24 PM

Good morning forumites, just a theory, and my 2 cents worth, could these first 2 hilts pictured in the discussions have something to do with representing mourning rather than prayer? Saying that, there is obviously prayer within mourning in our societies, but these hilts look to me like there is some degree of sadness within the figures.

regards

Gavin

Rick · 6th March 2008, 03:32 PM

I like both these handles; I do see quite a difference between them; Alan's example could be a meditative or prayerful attitude .
Michel's reflects (to me) the gesture of (can't remember the term for it; anyone??) formal greeting where the body is slightly bent forward from the waist with the hands crossed over the heart .

I find the dress of the figure represented on Alan's handle to be quite intriguing; I wonder where it originated .

Tim Simmons · 14th March 2008, 08:58 PM

While watching TV, I came across this. Perhaps especially when thinking of the material {marine ivory?} you have something a little more special than a Keris handle. From the NY Met. Certainly the product of a specialist?

Pusaka · 15th March 2008, 10:30 PM

To me the posture looks the same as seen on many keris Sajen, a figure bent forward with hands crossed over the heart or navel.

Tim Simmons · 16th March 2008, 05:18 PM

Exploring the staff or lime stick finial idea from the Melanesian and possibly Micronesian world. I can find at least half a dozen or so pictures of lime sticks and art works that reflect this pose. All carved in wood none as fine and as prestigious as the ivory item in question. Ivory bird heads. However this is drifting off discussing of weapons. I just have a gut feeling that Alan has something very nice indeed.

Pusaka · 16th March 2008, 07:17 PM

I remember reading a description of one of the early or first accounts of keris in Indonesia. The observer said that the men had straight bladed daggers with bone/ivory handles carved in the form of a human figure…..dose anyone remember reading this, is probably in the archives of this forum somewhere.

Could this be one?

4th March 2008, 07:58 AM	#1
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Fom Holstein book (1931) another keris hilt with a similar posture Attached Images

4th March 2008, 12:24 PM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	The hilts in question Good morning forumites, just a theory, and my 2 cents worth, could these first 2 hilts pictured in the discussions have something to do with representing mourning rather than prayer? Saying that, there is obviously prayer within mourning in our societies, but these hilts look to me like there is some degree of sadness within the figures. regards Gavin

14th March 2008, 08:58 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Perhaps? While watching TV, I came across this. Perhaps especially when thinking of the material {marine ivory?} you have something a little more special than a Keris handle. From the NY Met. Certainly the product of a specialist?

6th March 2008, 03:32 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	I like both these handles; I do see quite a difference between them; Alan's example could be a meditative or prayerful attitude . Michel's reflects (to me) the gesture of (can't remember the term for it; anyone??) formal greeting where the body is slightly bent forward from the waist with the hands crossed over the heart . I find the dress of the figure represented on Alan's handle to be quite intriguing; I wonder where it originated .

15th March 2008, 10:30 PM	#5
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	To me the posture looks the same as seen on many keris Sajen, a figure bent forward with hands crossed over the heart or navel.

16th March 2008, 05:18 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Exploring the staff or lime stick finial idea from the Melanesian and possibly Micronesian world. I can find at least half a dozen or so pictures of lime sticks and art works that reflect this pose. All carved in wood none as fine and as prestigious as the ivory item in question. Ivory bird heads. However this is drifting off discussing of weapons. I just have a gut feeling that Alan has something very nice indeed.

16th March 2008, 07:17 PM	#7
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	I remember reading a description of one of the early or first accounts of keris in Indonesia. The observer said that the men had straight bladed daggers with bone/ivory handles carved in the form of a human figure…..dose anyone remember reading this, is probably in the archives of this forum somewhere. Could this be one?