Occupational Health and Safety

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Stuart, we are aware of the more relaxed attitude to firearms in New Zealand. It seems to approach the attitude that prevailed in Australia around 50 years ago , when the population of Australia was around the 9 million mark.

The population of New Zealand today is somewhere around 4 million people, which is a little less than the population of the city of Sydney; the population of Australia today is around 21 million people. Additionally, there is considerable difference in the way in which the administration of New Zealand is structured, as compared with the structure of the Australian administration.

The demographic has different characteristics, and the history of settlement, which is linked to the history of firearms ownership, is also different.

There are a number of reasons why New Zealand is able to enjoy a less restrictive firearms regime.

However, possibly the most important reason is that because New Zealand was not subjected to the same explosive population mix, combined with greater population density, that Australia has experienced, there has not been the pressure from the wider community for arms control that has occurred in Australia. This has allowed the interested parties in New Zealand a period of grace, if you will, and realising that it would not be long before they also faced restrictions , political action was implemented early. The Australian experience showed quite clearly what was ahead if action was not taken.

Your recommendations to Gavin are completely correct. The whole issue of ownership of any type of arms is now a political matter, and the only way it can be addressed is by political means.

Legislation of any type normally reflects the wishes of the wider community, so if anti-weapons legislation is introduced, it is because the wider community sees this as desirable. As well as demonstrating political positives to politicians for not passing restrictive legislation, it is probably advisable to maintain a consistent public relations program to attempt to induce a better understanding of weaponry and those who use and collect it, amongst the general public.


Gavin, in our earlier exchange we were not discussing state structures, but Commonwealth structures:- uniform legislation across states dictates that such legislation must be Commonwealth legislation.
Each state, and the Commonwealth, has the right and the obligation to affix titles to the departments for which its individual ministers are responsible.
There is no obligation to maintain any sort of uniformity in the way in which each administration affixes such titles.
At a state level some states do have a Department of Justice, however, the Commonwealth of Australia does not have a Department of Justice, it has an Attorney-General's Department, which is responsible for justice.

[kahnjar1]

Yes I agree that the Australian system of Federal Govt does not make things easy, but............... surely if some States (Tas) have sensible laws, then pressure MUST be able to be brought to bear thru your local MPs. Also there MUST BE sitting MPs who have an interest in collecting weapons. These could be lobbied to at least air the issue at Govt level !. MPs do not like to risk not being re-elected. I agree with your comment that EDUCATION not REGULATION should take a leading position, but IT WON'T DO IT WITHOUT YOUR HELP, and by "your" I mean each and every collector. We have fought long and hard for reasonable laws here. It does not come to those who sit around and wait for others to act. You just end up with stupid laws (like Canada) or rediculous ones like UK.
REMEMBER there is strength in numbers. If there is not a club/association near you then start one!
As a final comment (from me anyway), we may not have such a wide ethnic mix here, but believe me, and without elaborating, there are some in this country who would take things into their own hands if the opportunity arose.
Stuart

[A. G. Maisey]

Stuart, I've been playing this game for almost fifty years now, and for a good part of that time, at a very involved level.

In this country we have full-time, paid professionals involved in the fight for citizens to keep and use arms.

In the state of NSW we have two sitting senators.

In the last federal election we fielded a candidate for the senate, regretably not elected.

The SSAA, and various collectors societies are continually involved in review of legislation and in negotiation with the relevant authorities. For the most part, the representatives of these organisations have a suitable professional background which allows them to deal on equal terms with bureaucrats and politicians.

The effort taking place in Australia is continuous, relentless, and cohesive. This has not always been the case, but in the atmosphere that followed the black operation that was Port Arthur, it became very obvious very quickly that a fully professional approach was needed:- that is what we have.

Your remarks may be well intentioned, but to somebody with my background your preaching does have an offensive ring. Before you start telling us how to do the job, I most sincerely suggest that you would benefit from a little experience of what we have to deal with in Australia.

Consider this:- the population of your entire country is less than the population of Sydney. You still have the luxury of an almost village-like environment. Australia is a totally different situation to that to which you are accustomed.

[kahnjar1]

I do apologise if it sounded as if I was preaching. That was far from the intention. I am also well aware that the population of NZ is far less than Australia, but that should not in any way affect the way things are done.
I will bow out of this argument now as things appear to be getting a bit heated over this, with the comment that our Politicians at least listen. It would appear that yours don't!!

[A. G. Maisey]

Khanjar, there is no heat that I can detect in this discussion, and it is a discussion, not an argument.

If you were not preaching, fair enough, if that was just your normal way of communication, and I mistook it for preaching, it is I who owe you an apology.

Population is one factor, but there are others. Population alone does not account for Australia's position. Look at the USA:- currently something over 300 million, and they've still got their guns & etc. But they've also got the Second Amendment, the NRA, and a vastly different history to that of Australia.

Australia has one of the most urbanised demographics on the face of this earth, it also has several well structured criminal organisations that have risen in most cases from ethnic bases. Although highly urbanised, it is subject to the tyranny of distance which has the effect of fragmenting opposition to restrictive legislation.

There is the fact that from the time Australia was settled, restrictive firearms laws were in place, made necessary of course by the criminal population who were Australia's first settlers.

It is textbook strategy to work through one's local member of parliament, and of course, we do, but any member of parliament works on the numbers, and if only a couple of percent of the electorate want softer weapons legislation , while perhaps 50% want tougher weapons legislation, and the balance don't really care, what do you think that MP is going to do?

The public education system has been whiteanted by green activists who as you would undoubtedly know are rabidly anti-gun, Its goes without saying that "anti-gun" includes anti everything else that could conceivably take a life. Children are taught to hate and fear firearms and other weapons as soon as they enter school. A quite different attitude to that which prevailed during the 1940's and 1950's. I was using a rimfire by the time I was 6 years old, and I owned my own rifle that was my responsibility at 8.

So, with this change in the attitude of the greater part of the population, those of us who struggle to try to maintain some of our freedoms are fighting a very uphill battle. Even my own grandchildren think I'm some sort of very peculiar person who cannot quite be trusted because I have all these terrible guns and other weapons around me. Regrettably, one of my daughters-in-law is a school teacher.

Then we have the media. Anything that smells of an anti-gun, tougher anti-crime-law story sells papers, so these paragons of integrity work it to death.

No, there are many reasons why the New Zealand canvas is different to the Australian canvas. What can be painted on the New Zealand canvas with relative ease could not be painted on the Australian canvas by Leonardo DaVinci. The current situation for pro-weapons people in Australia can probably only get worse. Please do not interpret this as defeatist, it is not. It is a realistic assessment of the actual situation. We will continue to fight, but the whole thing is political, politics works on numbers, and in our urbanised society, we simply do not have the numbers.

Khanjar, our politicians do most definitely listen.
They listen to their analysts and strategists who tell them that if they support softer weapons legislation, and somebody dies, seemingly because of that softer legislation, it will cost them perhaps 15% of the potential vote, whereas if they support the softer legislation and nobody dies, they will gain less than 1% of the potential vote.

It all works on numbers, and in 2008, with no threat of invasion, a highly urbanised population, and no perceived need for a normal person to own guns or other weapons, we just do not have the numbers.