Bugis keris

tom hyle · 19th March 2005, 12:35 PM

There seems to be some confusion over the concept called "trade k(e)ris"; it seems to have two different definitions referring to seperate categories (though there may be some overlap); the "bundle" kris, of (in, evidently, varying degree) a more mass-produced nature than an ordinary k(e)ris, all 20 forged in a single session, and with at least less attention and concentration on the proper rituals (kind of like trying to make love to 20 women at once I should think; a common fantasy that has always seemed as silly to me as dogs chasing cars); and the term is also being used to refer to blades that were originally/long ago sold off-island. BTW, I have heard that the spirit in a k(e)ris doesn't like to/can't cross water; any info? Doesn't sound true to me. Mind you I dont mean it doesn't sound like a genuine cultural belief; what I mean is it doesn't sound like the way spirits in blades behave to my experience....and if the natives take it seriously, why do they move the blades around so much? And how could they carry them to war? (I understand that even the "oh, no it's a religious artistic talisman, not a [shudder] weapon" crowd don't dispute that k[e]ris were carried to war, for their magical properties, if nothing else) Not every war is among the people of a single island, of course.

Alam Shah · 19th March 2005, 01:10 PM

AFAIK, the Bugis are sea-faring people. That's why their existence are found around coastal regions across the Malay archipelego. They traded (and some are pirates, too).
> I have heard that the spirit in a k(e)ris doesn't like to/can't cross water; any info? Doesn't sound true to me.
Maybe the spirit is a "non-swimmer"

.
Seriously, not that I know of, (i may be wrong). What I've heard is that certain types of materials (eg: "besi kuning"); some belief that if the owner falls in the water, it makes the bearer sinks. And in some circumstances, can make the boat sink. I've yet to hear about keris, though.

tom hyle · 19th March 2005, 03:33 PM

Thanks. It's just something someone mentioned to me in passing, with no in-depth; he said some natives believe it; that's all, but he is a person who is generally very knowlegable about this area.

19th March 2005, 12:35 PM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	There seems to be some confusion over the concept called "trade k(e)ris"; it seems to have two different definitions referring to seperate categories (though there may be some overlap); the "bundle" kris, of (in, evidently, varying degree) a more mass-produced nature than an ordinary k(e)ris, all 20 forged in a single session, and with at least less attention and concentration on the proper rituals (kind of like trying to make love to 20 women at once I should think; a common fantasy that has always seemed as silly to me as dogs chasing cars); and the term is also being used to refer to blades that were originally/long ago sold off-island. BTW, I have heard that the spirit in a k(e)ris doesn't like to/can't cross water; any info? Doesn't sound true to me. Mind you I dont mean it doesn't sound like a genuine cultural belief; what I mean is it doesn't sound like the way spirits in blades behave to my experience....and if the natives take it seriously, why do they move the blades around so much? And how could they carry them to war? (I understand that even the "oh, no it's a religious artistic talisman, not a [shudder] weapon" crowd don't dispute that k[e]ris were carried to war, for their magical properties, if nothing else) Not every war is among the people of a single island, of course.

19th March 2005, 01:10 PM	#2
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	AFAIK, the Bugis are sea-faring people. That's why their existence are found around coastal regions across the Malay archipelego. They traded (and some are pirates, too). > I have heard that the spirit in a k(e)ris doesn't like to/can't cross water; any info? Doesn't sound true to me. Maybe the spirit is a "non-swimmer" . Seriously, not that I know of, (i may be wrong). What I've heard is that certain types of materials (eg: "besi kuning"); some belief that if the owner falls in the water, it makes the bearer sinks. And in some circumstances, can make the boat sink. I've yet to hear about keris, though.

19th March 2005, 03:33 PM	#3
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Thanks. It's just something someone mentioned to me in passing, with no in-depth; he said some natives believe it; that's all, but he is a person who is generally very knowlegable about this area.