JAPANESE SLEEVE ENTANGLERS

t_c · 12th January 2008, 07:59 PM

According to Stone it's a Sode Garami (Sleeve tangler), used to catch thieves. Wish I could be more helpful. Nice pieces. If you want to PM me I'll resize the other images for you.
tc

fearn · 13th January 2008, 01:04 AM

There's a section on these weapons in Donn Draeger's book on classical bujutsu, which unfortunately I don't have with me at the moment. There were actually three weapons, the third being a catchpole similar to that used in Europe, and they were used by squads of three constables. After the shogunate was instituted, they became symbols of justice, and were displayed by magistrates at trials and punishments..

According to what I remember from Draeger, the reason that these poles were used was not because the constables couldn't touch the samurai, but rather because, during the Warring States Period (which is when these were used), the samurai were so dangerous that, to catch one alive (say, after a drunken brawl), a squad of three people with these implements was necessary. It's similar to medieval Europe, where the town constables used catchpoles of similar design for much the same reason.

Draeger wasn't fond of Tokugawa-era martial arts. He thought that they had deteriorated from the standard of the Warring States Period. One of his bits of evidence was that, during the Warring States period, the constables needed sleeve entanglers and worked in squads to catch samurai, whereas during the Tokugawa regime, they used staves, chains, and jitte (similar to sai) to catch samurai, and often worked alone. Something to think about.

My 0.02 cents,

F

Rick · 13th January 2008, 04:51 PM

Barry , I tried to resize those pics but they are not jpg files .

Maybe someone else can do better .

David · 13th January 2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Barry , I tried to resize those pics but they are not jpg files .

Maybe someone else can do better .

Send them to me, i'll see what i can do.

Rick · 13th January 2008, 05:22 PM

On the way David .

Check your email .

David · 13th January 2008, 09:05 PM

Sorry Rick, the photos that i saw on the site were so small that enlarging them to show detail would only pixelate the image beyond recognition.

Gavin Nugent · 15th January 2008, 07:59 AM

Here's the images you have been wanting to add.

Gav

13th January 2008, 04:51 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Sorry Barry , I tried to resize those pics but they are not jpg files . Maybe someone else can do better .

15th January 2008, 07:59 AM	#7
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Trade secret...not, here's the pics. Here's the images you have been wanting to add. Gav Attached Images

12th January 2008, 07:59 PM	#1
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	According to Stone it's a Sode Garami (Sleeve tangler), used to catch thieves. Wish I could be more helpful. Nice pieces. If you want to PM me I'll resize the other images for you. tc

13th January 2008, 01:04 AM	#2
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	There's a section on these weapons in Donn Draeger's book on classical bujutsu, which unfortunately I don't have with me at the moment. There were actually three weapons, the third being a catchpole similar to that used in Europe, and they were used by squads of three constables. After the shogunate was instituted, they became symbols of justice, and were displayed by magistrates at trials and punishments.. According to what I remember from Draeger, the reason that these poles were used was not because the constables couldn't touch the samurai, but rather because, during the Warring States Period (which is when these were used), the samurai were so dangerous that, to catch one alive (say, after a drunken brawl), a squad of three people with these implements was necessary. It's similar to medieval Europe, where the town constables used catchpoles of similar design for much the same reason. Draeger wasn't fond of Tokugawa-era martial arts. He thought that they had deteriorated from the standard of the Warring States Period. One of his bits of evidence was that, during the Warring States period, the constables needed sleeve entanglers and worked in squads to catch samurai, whereas during the Tokugawa regime, they used staves, chains, and jitte (similar to sai) to catch samurai, and often worked alone. Something to think about. My 0.02 cents, F

13th January 2008, 05:22 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	On the way David . Check your email .

13th January 2008, 09:05 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Sorry Rick, the photos that i saw on the site were so small that enlarging them to show detail would only pixelate the image beyond recognition.