Looking for Information on this Kris.

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Hi Alam Shah, Thank you for your reply. I don't think the blade has been repaired, I have included another 2 photos showing the detail of the Ganja, what is shown in the first photo of the original posting is what I would just call an age spot. I don't think from holding it and looking at this Kris, that the Belalai Gajah is an add on, again see photo, but then I don't know much of the forging processes of knives. I can say that there is amazing detail, I'd even go so far as to say that I can see the Elephants eyes, though not shown very well in the photos. With regards to the luks, I too am confused on this matter, if I was to just count them I would say 10, but if I included the head of the Belalai Gajah as the first wave, I would say 11.
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The newer pictures showed that the belalai gajah is intact, not repaired on the reverse side. I stand corrected, the flow is there and 11 luks it is then. Gazing on the blade, many abstract forms may appear.

Originally Posted by freebooter

... some have placed it as early as the 14th century, but all I am told is taken with a grain of salt until my own research can confirm or deny any claims. I am guessing that a traditional cleaning might reveal more but I am quite taken by the old patina it carries and in particular the somewhat green hue this blade has in places. I too like the pendokok, for some reason it reminds me of the great Angkor architecture. The toe of the sheath is horn too David.
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19th century would be my estimate. The bugis pendokok, is widely used in the malay archipelago, (peninsular malaysia, sumatra, riau-lingga...etc), so by virtue of this alone, it would be difficult to determine origin. I like this form too.

[Gavin Nugent]

Thank you for the heads up Alan, I probably should have read the sticky threads a bit more closely, in particular #5 in the code of conduct, I do apologise fellow forumites, I will keep this type of question to myself.

Thanks again guys for norrowing all my speculation down to a more accurate place of origin, all input has been fantastic thus far and is interesting to hear about Kris being "put togethers" as far back as the late 1800's. Do you think this is the norm that influences tended to be a mixture of parts or just a result of amateur collection in the days of old?

thanks again

Gav

[A. G. Maisey]

The example I quoted was obtained in Sumatra by a seaman who worked on trading ships and was supposedly taken from a Sumatran gentleman in a fight. That could be family legend, but this information was given to me in an honest fashion and situation.

I've seen other stuff too that was a mix. Recently had a piece obtained as a gift in the the 1930's from a village chief in Sumatra referred to me. From memory that was Bugis/Jawa/ Palembang + some unidentifiable part ---forget the precise details, but it was a total mix.

Yeah, western collectors mix things too, as do dealers, but it has been happening in local areas for years also.

[David]

That's a funky looking sheath on that example you posted Alan. Beautiful wood.
I certainly won't argue that occasionally you will find a bugis keris from an indigenous source with this type of hilt orientation...but i just can't imagine what kind of proper grip the owner could have when using his keris as a weapon.

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by David

That's a funky looking sheath on that example you posted Alan. Beautiful wood.
I certainly won't argue that occasionally you will find a bugis keris from an indigenous source with this type of hilt orientation...but i just can't imagine what kind of proper grip the owner could have when using his keris as a weapon.

Alan's example reminds me of my piece... [ see here ].
As for hilt orientation, I've seen pieces fixed solid to that orientation, (an example would be one of Paul de Souza's piece). David, I can't imagine as well. If the wielder is a left hander (like myself), the blade orientation would also be at an angle from the other side.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yeah, its quite pretty, and similar to Sharial's example. I do have others with this back to front handle, but I knew where this one was and could grab it immediately without having to look for it. I've wondered about the weapon function myself, and have thought that maybe it is turned back to front like this for some social reason, possibly indicating that the owner does not use it as a weapon for some reason or other.

Incidentally, the blade is also similar.

[Gavin Nugent]

Hi guys, I have attached a photo of my oversized hands holding this blade and it seems very natural and where my forefinger is adds a lot of support, I thought I'd just include it for reference.

thanks again

Gav

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

... I've wondered about the weapon function myself, and have thought that maybe it is turned back to front like this for some social reason, possibly indicating that the owner does not use it as a weapon for some reason or other.

Incidentally, the blade is also similar.

For social function's perhaps... but why secure it at that position rendering the weapon less effective? If the blade is similar, I would be interested in the piece...