A sociological and anthropological question

[John]

Originally Posted by Antonio Cejunior

I presume that we will hopefully have a contribution for the clarification of the meaning of Kris.

This popular Good Keris thread covers the definition of Keris as well as how the word Keris is derived. Thought I bring it up here for ease of reference.

[Antonio Cejunior]

Originally Posted by John

This popular Good Keris thread covers the definition of Keris as well as how the word Keris is derived. Thought I bring it up here for ease of reference.

John,
Thank you very much for posting the link here. Most invaluable.

Vandoo, Jim, Federico and all other gentlemen,
Please forgive me for not being able to reply one by one to all your great posts.
I have been extremely busy and am having a bit of a rest now

Andrew,

Thank you for your assistance with the poll. My idea about the poll is to see very simple answers to questions so that they might eventually be incorporated in another area of the Forum as Socio Anthropological information.

Here they:

1. What is your ancestral background?

2. Where do you live?

3. At what age did you beging to feel attracted by swords?
- adolescence
- 20's
- 30's
-Later

4. Do you feel segregated as a sword collector?
Yes No

5. Has your profession played a role in being a collector?

6. Reason you collect Ethnographical Weapons
- reminds me of my roots
- interested in specific cultures
- because of its beautiful per se

7. What is your definition of Ethnografical Weapons?
Please reply in a very direct and concise way.

8. State which do you consider Ethnographical Weapons?

9. Why?
Please reply in a very direct and concise way.

10. Which countries swords do you collect mostly?

11. Are you open to other types?

I hope this can cover most of the issues. Feel free to add more questions.
Thank you Andrew and all

[wolviex]

Antonio - as far as I know, forum poll option is possible to apply when you've got few answers to choose, like A, B, C, and then system is able to count answers and give you a percent result - but let's wait what Andrew can do, maybe I'm wrong.

Questions are ok, but let me have one remark - maybe I'm the exception, but I can't answer to a few questions like: "Has your profession played a role in being a collector?" or "Which countries swords do you collect mostly?", while I'm no collector just a museum worker - maybe I should answer as an Institution

Best regards!

[Antonio Cejunior]

Wolviex,

Thank you for your kind information. I am not sure how to move around and appreciate Andrew's help and adaptation whenever necessary.

Indeed, I think it is fine to answer as an Institution. Thank you.
Best regards.

[tom hyle]

Originally Posted by Antonio Cejunior

John,
Thank you very much for posting the link here. Most invaluable.




I think I'll just try to jump in on these questions. Nice answers by everyone; very in depth; I doubt I shall go so deeply, but then I do tend to ramble.....


1. What is your ancestral background?

Hillbilly. Iroquois, Cherokee, German, Welsh, some Swedish I think, some Scottish, no doubt, possibly some Irish. Good ol' mutt, I guess. I generally refer to my racial background as American Indian, due, I supose, to my disgust with the dominant culture. Raised Roman Catholic; the animist truth was always clear to me; eventually I began to recognize the single identity of the Old Religion.....Oops; rambling; told ya.

2. Where do you live?
Short answer Houston. Slightly longer; I seem nomadic, though it doesn't please me. Insight into Tom for ya answer; in a world of idjits.

3. At what age did you beging to feel attracted by swords?
- adolescence
- 20's
- 30's
-Later

Earlier. Early childhood. Probably involved with my father's horrific tales of violence (kids love that stuff) and the old, mostly adventurous books I began reading at age 5 or 6. I was always an artist, early primarily a visual artist, and one of my fascinations was with the structure of what I was drawing. This didn't lead to me focussing in on swords, but it is my earliest memory of taking an interest in how they are made. Oh! And the Bible, or as I sometimes call it "Tales of Theft and Violence"; really bloody stuff that stirs the imagination of young boys.
Also, and I think appropriately, weapons are very much associated in my mind with the concepts of manhood, indeed of human-ness, and of freedom.
I think the assumption it might begin in adolescence may be going in with the popular conception of swords/blades as penis symbols. I tend to think this a pretty bogus concept, sensical mostly to people who are not truly familiar with blades (amazingly common among the industrial culture, where things are cut by specialized professionals). I won't go into extolling my penis, but I'll tell you this; it isn't much like a sword; almost the opposite.

4. Do you feel segregated as a sword collector?
Yes No
I feel so segregated from the humans in general and the Americans in particular that it's very hard for me to tell. Male humans usually have a passing and surface interest in the matter. Females usually make some nervous comment question about serial killery/rapism; playing it into a joke seems to calm them; nervousness, defensiveness, or thoughtfulness to make them more nervous. Silly humans; this sort of conception of me leaps to their minds, anyway, as I am weird and not pretty weird, but ugly weird; hairy and fat and muscular, often looking and smelling much like a wild animal, inarticulate, with a seething blend of reticence and warlike angy boldness (I try to suppress that, but it is my true nature, I suppose; I have never been much to put up with abuse, at least once I recognize it as such....and the humans are always abusing....it's that quietude that transforms explosively. People don't know what it is, but I supose they know they don't want to be around it.), and a near total lack of the largely standardized manipulativeneness the N Americans call "social skills". We're hearing a lot about autism lately, and I'm pretty sure if I was a kid now they'd say I has Asberger's syndrome, and probably try to drug me up on some of their experimental drugs
On the other hand, once I was trying to sell some swords at an open market and I had them spread out, and this guy came by; I think he was a South American man, though I can't recall any particular detail about him that made me think that, and he had a young child with him, walking, and they were looking at the goods in the market. He got about 1/2 way past me and then his eyes went wide with horror at what he was looking at. He snatched up the child and hurried away, casting me a look blended of hate and fear. Once under the same circumstance a N American youth tried wordlessly to threaten me with one of my own swords.....I sneered, firmed my feet (I was sitting) and held my quartering staff.
For my own part, I find I am more disturbed and bemused by my urge to collect (started with tree-shed bird's nests, snailshells, and rocks) than by what I collect. Whenever a woman nervously asks me why I collect swords I try to answer the collecting question instead; I think it's more meaningful.
Gotta agree that there is a weird blend of fear with over-casualness. Ordinary modernes will up and touch a blade by its edge! Too many movies; too little experience of real blades that will actually cut. I liked the Zefferelli (spelling?) Hamlet, but there he is, holding his sword by the blade in a fit of grief; blood would be running......


5. Has your profession played a role in being a collector?

I've worked primarily as a cook and a woodworker; both jobs with a lot of cutting and cutlery.

6. Reason you collect Ethnographical Weapons
- reminds me of my roots
- interested in specific cultures
- because of its beautiful per se

Again, a miss. I came to collect antique and foreign edged weapons because I couldn't afford new high quality ones, and I found that if I looked around I could get old ones really cheaply from people who considered them junk. My interest in swords began as and remains an interest in them as a living art form, as deadly and relevant weapons, and (did I mention I am an animist?) as living persons.

7. What is your definition of Ethnografical Weapons?
Please reply in a very direct and concise way.

I don't know that there is a definition. Any product of a culture is ethnological. (we had a weird etymological discussion of this on the old forum, in, of all places, "supreme katanas" I think). I certainly see a marked difference between modern industrial culture ruled by what I've come to call "The Over-culture"; the academic/government/military/industrial pseudo tribe that rules the Earth, and traditional culture and between their products. I guess handmade and consciously traditional vs machine made and industrially designed.

8. State which do you consider Ethnographical Weapons?


9. Why?
Please reply in a very direct and concise way.

10. Which countries swords do you collect mostly? I have no preferrence, really, but if one country has predominated amongst those I both like and can afford I suppose it would be either S Phillipines or W Europe. Lately I've been picking up some nice Mexican stuff.

11. Are you open to other types?
Yep

I hope this can cover most of the issues. Feel free to add more questions.
Thank you Andrew and all

The best hilt material is probably straight grain slow-grown climax forest beech heartwood (though not the actual, very heart; this may confuse; the heart is the actual core; the innermost 4-6 inches, and tends to be more cracky/less stable; the heartwood is the fully hardened structural wood, all the way out to the sapwood, which is still being used to move fluid), or possibly cattle/buffaloe horn. Nonfibrous hilt materials are usually a bad choice, because they break/shatter with random directionality, and so cannot be bound against it with ferules as can horn, wood, etc. A partial exception for solid metals if they are hard enough to suport the stress; aluminum is good; brass tends to be too heavy if solid; zinc potmetal is as bad as plastic, if you ask me. Metal also has the problem of getting too hot/too cold.

[Antonio Cejunior]

Thanks Tom

I posted the earlier row of questions for Andrew to kindly make a poll of it.
But your answer is invaluable.
Thank you so much.