Curious construction, fantasy

kronckew · 11th December 2007, 04:29 PM

had a couple of seax* made by a guy who also does bolines,
his 'golden sickles' are actually made of bronze, which i'd guess is more likely for the early pre-roman druids.
the blades are a bit smaller than the ebay one.

you can get them in the traditional rowan wood hafts.
bronze athames also

bronze does not poison the magic, the fey folke are poisoned by steel and iron.
pentagrams a common motif: (esmerelda dagger thread?)

steel, stainless, and pattern welded steel blades also available as well.

* my seax, just because i like them

Tim Simmons · 11th December 2007, 06:06 PM

Hmm, not that different from many hunting style and pocket knives. I know the Druid order does have some history and its origins are not solely connected with make believe. All the rest and some more conventional distractions are to me rather like dungeons and dragons role playing gone mad. Just call me Stalin

Pusaka · 11th December 2007, 06:44 PM

I think the handle is taken from the fork of a meat carving set or perhaps the knife sharpener, I have a carving set with similar handle.

In my mind I distinguish Druids into two groups, the real (ancient)and the modern. Truth is we dont know much about the ancient druids but many of the modern drudic societys have been built on the few craps we do have, People then improvise to fill the gaps.

fearn · 11th December 2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pusaka

I think the handle is taken from the fork of a meat carving set or perhaps the knife sharpener, I have a carving set with similar handle.

In my mind I distinguish Druids into two groups, the real (ancient)and the modern. Truth is we dont know much about the ancient druids but many of the modern drudic societys have been built on the few craps we do have, People then improvise to fill the gaps.

Absolutely, Pusaka. That's always the grump about the modern druids. The funny thing is that the "Druid revival" began back around 1717, or some such early date, and one of the questions is, how long does a "revival" have to be around before it's accepted as genuine in its own right? I mean, we're going on three hundred years of englishmen wearing white robes and carrying sickles. Isn't that long enough? To a large degree it's irrelevant, though. Only the shysters claim to have some sort of unbroken connection with the ancient druids.

Tim Simmons · 11th December 2007, 06:56 PM

You are right Fearn. I might be Stalin but I am not too stupid "I hope" to recognise the need and comfort some people get from such activities.

The items in this link do have some real merit. Something very familiar to some East Asian knife though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:A...and_Boline.JPG

fearn · 11th December 2007, 07:55 PM

Not a problem Tim. I, for one, always appreciate differences in view, so long as we can discuss them, rather than fight over them.

This is actually an interesting period in the rise of Wicca, especially. There isn't a set form for athames or bolines (the two ritual blades in some traditions), and so what we're seeing here is essentially an experimental or evolutionary period where people figure out "what works," however that is defined. A lot of material gets borrowed, including that athame you cited. Personally, I think that is a great form, and it will be hilarious if, in two centuries, people are trying to figure out how the Thais influenced wicca, because of the standard shape of the athame at that time...

In other swords (like the dha), we're stuck trying to figure out how to classify designs, and how they originated and changed over time. Perhaps we should be encouraging pagans to keep a provenance on their tools, so that in a few centuries, the collectors and enthusiasts will have a better idea how the forms evolved in their formative decades. Just a thought.

Pusaka · 11th December 2007, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

how long does a "revival" have to be around before it's accepted as genuine in its own right?

Unless there is a continuous unbroken line back to the original druids knowledge can not be passes from mouth to ear, once that line is broken its gone.

"Revival" suggests the knowledge is surfficent to revive, from my study there is not surfficent knowledge to revive what was lost.

fearn · 12th December 2007, 12:01 AM

Hi Pusaka,

You're right, although druid revival is the terminology used. I'd point out in contrast, that there is a line of succession that is several hundred years old among the revivalist druids, and the question is whether should be considered fake, simply because the revivalist druids use a name that is several thousand years old.

Again, I'd point out that this is uncomfortable ground for this particular forum, which is really about the artifacts, not the "authenticity" (however defined) of the traditions that produced them. For me, having a tradition that is several centuries old is authentic enough, even if it doesn't trace directly back to the old headhunting, slave taking Celts.

F

Andi · 24th November 2012, 08:58 AM

Ki kronckew!

I just found this "historic" thread.

The seax blades are looking like being inspired by scandinavian and anglo saxon seax types from the 9th and 10th century AD.

Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seax_of_Beagnoth you will find some examples which corresponds to your seax blades.

The handles made of horn are a new interpretation in my eyes. From continental seax types of the 6th and 7th century I only know one single preserved archaeological find out of the publications.
Unfortunately i am not so firm with the anglo saxon and scandinavian seax types. Metal decoration on the scabbard is well known from eastern baltic and Slavic finds, spreading out to the Viking age in nothern Europe.

fearn · 11th December 2007, 06:48 PM

It does get hard to distinguish between role-playing and serious religion, to outsiders on any religion. We could probably get this thread locked down quickly by arguing about who is a real representative of a religion vs. who is play-acting (for political purposes, say...)--and I have NO desire to go there.

Nonetheless, there are serious western religions and fraternal groups that use ritual bladed implements, and there are people who collect such "weapons." As such, they are as legitimate a part of this forum as any other "weapon" whose primary use is not cutting people or things. It's easy enough for people who don't want to talk about them to avoid such threads.

Getting back to the druid's sickle/falx... I agree that the druids may well have used a gold-plated bronze sickle to cut the mistletoe on the summer solstice. It's all a symbolism thing: the sickle crescent is a moon symbol, the gold is a sun symbol, the mistletoe is an "unearthly" plant (that rarely grows on European oaks, BTW), and mistletoe has some fairly explicit sexual symbolism, which is why people kiss under it at Christmas... You get the idea. However, a couple of years ago, I read about a guy who got curious, made two sickles out of nine carat gold, and found out that you can, in fact, harvest mistletoe with such an implement, although the golden sickle is destroyed in the process. Mistletoe wood is pretty brittle. So the legend is plausible, but whether the druids actually did things that way is questionable. It's a great story, though.

F

11th December 2007, 04:29 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	had a couple of seax* made by a guy who also does bolines, his 'golden sickles' are actually made of bronze, which i'd guess is more likely for the early pre-roman druids. the blades are a bit smaller than the ebay one. you can get them in the traditional rowan wood hafts. bronze athames also bronze does not poison the magic, the fey folke are poisoned by steel and iron. pentagrams a common motif: (esmerelda dagger thread?) steel, stainless, and pattern welded steel blades also available as well. * my seax, just because i like them

11th December 2007, 06:06 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Hmm, not that different from many hunting style and pocket knives. I know the Druid order does have some history and its origins are not solely connected with make believe. All the rest and some more conventional distractions are to me rather like dungeons and dragons role playing gone mad. Just call me Stalin

11th December 2007, 06:44 PM	#3
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	I think the handle is taken from the fork of a meat carving set or perhaps the knife sharpener, I have a carving set with similar handle. In my mind I distinguish Druids into two groups, the real (ancient)and the modern. Truth is we dont know much about the ancient druids but many of the modern drudic societys have been built on the few craps we do have, People then improvise to fill the gaps.

11th December 2007, 06:56 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	You are right Fearn. I might be Stalin but I am not too stupid "I hope" to recognise the need and comfort some people get from such activities. The items in this link do have some real merit. Something very familiar to some East Asian knife though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:A...and_Boline.JPG

11th December 2007, 07:55 PM	#6
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Not a problem Tim. I, for one, always appreciate differences in view, so long as we can discuss them, rather than fight over them. This is actually an interesting period in the rise of Wicca, especially. There isn't a set form for athames or bolines (the two ritual blades in some traditions), and so what we're seeing here is essentially an experimental or evolutionary period where people figure out "what works," however that is defined. A lot of material gets borrowed, including that athame you cited. Personally, I think that is a great form, and it will be hilarious if, in two centuries, people are trying to figure out how the Thais influenced wicca, because of the standard shape of the athame at that time... In other swords (like the dha), we're stuck trying to figure out how to classify designs, and how they originated and changed over time. Perhaps we should be encouraging pagans to keep a provenance on their tools, so that in a few centuries, the collectors and enthusiasts will have a better idea how the forms evolved in their formative decades. Just a thought.

12th December 2007, 12:01 AM	#8
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Pusaka, You're right, although druid revival is the terminology used. I'd point out in contrast, that there is a line of succession that is several hundred years old among the revivalist druids, and the question is whether should be considered fake, simply because the revivalist druids use a name that is several thousand years old. Again, I'd point out that this is uncomfortable ground for this particular forum, which is really about the artifacts, not the "authenticity" (however defined) of the traditions that produced them. For me, having a tradition that is several centuries old is authentic enough, even if it doesn't trace directly back to the old headhunting, slave taking Celts. F

24th November 2012, 08:58 AM	#9
Andi Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Halstenbek, Germany Posts: 203	Ki kronckew! I just found this "historic" thread. The seax blades are looking like being inspired by scandinavian and anglo saxon seax types from the 9th and 10th century AD. Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seax_of_Beagnoth you will find some examples which corresponds to your seax blades. The handles made of horn are a new interpretation in my eyes. From continental seax types of the 6th and 7th century I only know one single preserved archaeological find out of the publications. Unfortunately i am not so firm with the anglo saxon and scandinavian seax types. Metal decoration on the scabbard is well known from eastern baltic and Slavic finds, spreading out to the Viking age in nothern Europe.

11th December 2007, 06:48 PM	#10
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	It does get hard to distinguish between role-playing and serious religion, to outsiders on any religion. We could probably get this thread locked down quickly by arguing about who is a real representative of a religion vs. who is play-acting (for political purposes, say...)--and I have NO desire to go there. Nonetheless, there are serious western religions and fraternal groups that use ritual bladed implements, and there are people who collect such "weapons." As such, they are as legitimate a part of this forum as any other "weapon" whose primary use is not cutting people or things. It's easy enough for people who don't want to talk about them to avoid such threads. Getting back to the druid's sickle/falx... I agree that the druids may well have used a gold-plated bronze sickle to cut the mistletoe on the summer solstice. It's all a symbolism thing: the sickle crescent is a moon symbol, the gold is a sun symbol, the mistletoe is an "unearthly" plant (that rarely grows on European oaks, BTW), and mistletoe has some fairly explicit sexual symbolism, which is why people kiss under it at Christmas... You get the idea. However, a couple of years ago, I read about a guy who got curious, made two sickles out of nine carat gold, and found out that you can, in fact, harvest mistletoe with such an implement, although the golden sickle is destroyed in the process. Mistletoe wood is pretty brittle. So the legend is plausible, but whether the druids actually did things that way is questionable. It's a great story, though. F