Abyssinian shotel for coment

roanoa · 8th December 2007, 06:38 AM

You have opened the Pandora box.... Shotel. Well, for starters there is a village in Eritrea named Shotel. So the word exists, at least in the Tygrinian language spoken in Eritrea and Tigrai. It may not exist in Amharic and therefore it may not be known in Ethiopia. My mother-in-law (she was a full-blood Eritrean) told me that shotel meant "big knife". So she knew the word. I can see, though, that the term may have been used only in a few areas of Abyssinia and then lost along the way. Gurade is a different story. It may be pronounced GURADE, GORADE or GORADIE, but it is the correct word, both in Amharic and Tygrinian, for sword, though the term SE'F (from the Arabic SAIF) is widely used. I guess that Se'f really means "sword" and Gurade means "sabre". Gurage is an Ethnic group and the word has nothing to do with swords. I am not surprised by the fact that a lot of Ethiopians know absolutely nothing about these things. Nobody I ever talked to even understood a single word of Ge'ez. Again, my mother-in-law, who knew the whole Bible almost by heart, understood Ge'ez, and was able to translate a few inscriptions. The new generations don't even know who Ras Alula was.... Blame it to the DERG, I guess. Bottom line is that I will continue to used these terms as I am convinced they are historically and ethnically correct.

Emanuel · 8th December 2007, 03:23 PM

Thank you very much for the clarification, Ron. I'll follow you in accepting these terms.

On another note, I've finally got pictures (well, drawings) of European-made shotel blades. This gentleman was kind enough to scan some pages from Wilkinson and Solingen catalogues: http://forums.swordforum.com/showpos...0&postcount=13
These date from the early 1900s.

Regards,
Emanuel

Jim McDougall · 8th December 2007, 03:46 PM

Hi Ron,
Thank you so much for adding that information, and as I have noted, I think we can be confident that yours is pretty much the final word when it comes to these Ethiopian and Eritrean weapons. I have truly admired the work you have done on studying them over the years.
You are right also in noting that the general population in these regions is much like most modern populations, in being terribly uninformed when it comes to such matters. I wonder if the situation with the term 'kaskara' is much the same problem?

You have certainly resolved at least one of the elements from the dreaded Pandoras Box on weapons terminology!!! I'm with Emanuel and will accept the terms we have discussed as you have described.
Thank you again.
All very best regards,
Jim

roanoa · 8th December 2007, 08:45 PM

Jim,
it is understandable that the vast majority of people would not know much about "old stuff". Things WE take for granted are a mystery to most. If you were ta ask a fellow from Europe about a PALLASH, what do you think his response would be? I wonder if I ask about a RAPIER.... I may be told that the correct word is RAPIST..... About the KASKARA, it may be a modification of QATTARA???? I googled ETHIOPIAN SHOTEL and found a reliable reference to SHOTEL meaning KNIFE. That would be in line with my mother-in-law's translation. Also, another word for knife, in this article, was GARA, which in modern Amharic and Tygrinian is KARRA. One of the problem with these terms is that they have to be written in English based on the pronounciation which differs from area to area. Also, in Ethiopia/Eritrea there are MANY languages spoken and the same object will have a dramatically different name. Well, this is the stuff that make my collecting interesting!!!

8th December 2007, 06:38 AM	#1
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 241	You have opened the Pandora box.... Shotel. Well, for starters there is a village in Eritrea named Shotel. So the word exists, at least in the Tygrinian language spoken in Eritrea and Tigrai. It may not exist in Amharic and therefore it may not be known in Ethiopia. My mother-in-law (she was a full-blood Eritrean) told me that shotel meant "big knife". So she knew the word. I can see, though, that the term may have been used only in a few areas of Abyssinia and then lost along the way. Gurade is a different story. It may be pronounced GURADE, GORADE or GORADIE, but it is the correct word, both in Amharic and Tygrinian, for sword, though the term SE'F (from the Arabic SAIF) is widely used. I guess that Se'f really means "sword" and Gurade means "sabre". Gurage is an Ethnic group and the word has nothing to do with swords. I am not surprised by the fact that a lot of Ethiopians know absolutely nothing about these things. Nobody I ever talked to even understood a single word of Ge'ez. Again, my mother-in-law, who knew the whole Bible almost by heart, understood Ge'ez, and was able to translate a few inscriptions. The new generations don't even know who Ras Alula was.... Blame it to the DERG, I guess. Bottom line is that I will continue to used these terms as I am convinced they are historically and ethnically correct.

8th December 2007, 03:23 PM	#2
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Thank you very much for the clarification, Ron. I'll follow you in accepting these terms. On another note, I've finally got pictures (well, drawings) of European-made shotel blades. This gentleman was kind enough to scan some pages from Wilkinson and Solingen catalogues: http://forums.swordforum.com/showpos...0&postcount=13 These date from the early 1900s. Regards, Emanuel

8th December 2007, 03:46 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,585	Hi Ron, Thank you so much for adding that information, and as I have noted, I think we can be confident that yours is pretty much the final word when it comes to these Ethiopian and Eritrean weapons. I have truly admired the work you have done on studying them over the years. You are right also in noting that the general population in these regions is much like most modern populations, in being terribly uninformed when it comes to such matters. I wonder if the situation with the term 'kaskara' is much the same problem? You have certainly resolved at least one of the elements from the dreaded Pandoras Box on weapons terminology!!! I'm with Emanuel and will accept the terms we have discussed as you have described. Thank you again. All very best regards, Jim

8th December 2007, 08:45 PM	#4
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 241	Jim, it is understandable that the vast majority of people would not know much about "old stuff". Things WE take for granted are a mystery to most. If you were ta ask a fellow from Europe about a PALLASH, what do you think his response would be? I wonder if I ask about a RAPIER.... I may be told that the correct word is RAPIST..... About the KASKARA, it may be a modification of QATTARA???? I googled ETHIOPIAN SHOTEL and found a reliable reference to SHOTEL meaning KNIFE. That would be in line with my mother-in-law's translation. Also, another word for knife, in this article, was GARA, which in modern Amharic and Tygrinian is KARRA. One of the problem with these terms is that they have to be written in English based on the pronounciation which differs from area to area. Also, in Ethiopia/Eritrea there are MANY languages spoken and the same object will have a dramatically different name. Well, this is the stuff that make my collecting interesting!!!