Were the chakram's only used by the Sikhs?

roshan · 24th November 2007, 12:23 PM

I think something is missing from this thread.

The Chakram is in fact an extremely important weapon in the Hindu religion - it is the sacred weapon of the Hindu god Krishna, often used by him to execute his enemies. In texts such as the Mahabharata, Krishna is described as spinning the Chakram around his finger, and then releasing it towards the enemy. Other than that though, I have never encountered any reference about the Chakram being used by any other Hindu gods or heroes. In the minds of the average Hindu, the Chakram is closely associated with Krishna, and not Sikhism. What I do not understand though is why the weapon declined amongst Hindus, and became popular amongst the Sikhs. Perhaps one must ask whether it was ever actually used by Hindus in combat at all, or whether it was originally just a fantasy weapon.

Sikhs may have come to develop the Chakram due to its close association with the Vaishnava bhakti (worship of Vishnu, and his main incarnations Rama and Krishna) movement. Although modern Sikhism promotes the worship of god without form, the early history of the religion is quite different. The Guru Granth mentions Vishnu, Rama and Krishna hundreds of times - often referring to specific events in the lives of these dieties. It also incorporates verses authored by many Vaishnava saints, including Namdev from the Varkari tradition of Maharashtra, who was a staunch idolator. The holiest temple of the Sikhs is called the Harmandir (literally temple of Hari, another name of Vishnu) and had pictures of various Hindu dieties until the very recent Sikh reform movement, and the lake it stands on is supposedly an ancient lake sacred to Vaishnavas. And, even more strange, most of the Sikh gurus are named after Vishnu and his various incarnations: Ram Das (literally devotee of Ram), Hargobind (Hari + Gobind, names of Vishnu and Krishna respectively), Har Krishan (Hari + Krishna), Angad Dev (Angad is a character who helped Rama in the Ramayana), Gobind Singh (Gobind means cow protector, another name for Krishna), Arjan Dev (Arjuna is Krishnas closest friend) and Har Rai (Hari again).

Also, Id like to ask, does anyone know if the Chakram is actually effective in combat against an enemy? It seems to me that it is a virtually useless weapon - impractical to carry, hard (likely even risky) to throw, impossible to aim, and ineffective as well.

josh stout · 26th November 2007, 04:34 PM

Here is a thread on another forum on the topic.
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...hlight=chakrum
Josh

(The video is worth watching)

fernando · 26th November 2007, 07:15 PM

Excelent video.
Thanks a thousand, Josh.
Fernando

Sikh_soldier · 6th December 2007, 05:51 PM

Hi, just a humble request that the posts remain respectful of each others opinions and beliefs, best way would be to keep religious views to ourselves,

My two pence, would be that its a possible reference(although not favourable

) to sikhs due to the "iron dishes" as Nihung Singhs (sikh warriors) only eat out of iron, and are regarded as Sant-Sipahi, or Saint Soldier

Jens Nordlunde · 6th December 2007, 09:54 PM

I feel sure that no one wanted to offend you or anyone else, so if you are offended, please accept my appology.
Do you have any comments to the use of the quoit/chakra, either when it comes to where it was used or any other comments.
Jens

katana · 7th December 2007, 09:37 PM

I have found this article on the Chakra, very informative, but the images are missing

. Definately worth a look.

http://www.whoosh.org/issue8/rudnick6.html

Regards David

Sikh_soldier · 12th December 2007, 04:34 PM

Hi Jens,

Please do not apologise
I am sure no one has tried to offend anyone, its just that referring to a Sikh Guru (Prophet/Messiah) as a cow protector may be seen as some as provocative by some.
I myself am not offended easily, but a great was exerted to try and associate or merge Sikhism and Hinduism by a fellow member, which was not quite relevant to the least.

Regarding the Chakar at it is also called, It must have been useful as the Sikhs were not ritualistic with weapons, they would simply choose what was most efficient at the time. As can be seen from their armouries, Kukri's, Khanda's and Katars all which come from all over India.

either way.......it looks pretty cool!

6th December 2007, 05:51 PM	#4
Sikh_soldier Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87	Sikh references Hi, just a humble request that the posts remain respectful of each others opinions and beliefs, best way would be to keep religious views to ourselves, My two pence, would be that its a possible reference(although not favourable ) to sikhs due to the "iron dishes" as Nihung Singhs (sikh warriors) only eat out of iron, and are regarded as Sant-Sipahi, or Saint Soldier Attached Images

12th December 2007, 04:34 PM	#7
Sikh_soldier Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87	Chakram Hi Jens, Please do not apologise I am sure no one has tried to offend anyone, its just that referring to a Sikh Guru (Prophet/Messiah) as a cow protector may be seen as some as provocative by some. I myself am not offended easily, but a great was exerted to try and associate or merge Sikhism and Hinduism by a fellow member, which was not quite relevant to the least. Regarding the Chakar at it is also called, It must have been useful as the Sikhs were not ritualistic with weapons, they would simply choose what was most efficient at the time. As can be seen from their armouries, Kukri's, Khanda's and Katars all which come from all over India. either way.......it looks pretty cool!

24th November 2007, 12:23 PM	#1
roshan Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 20	I think something is missing from this thread. The Chakram is in fact an extremely important weapon in the Hindu religion - it is the sacred weapon of the Hindu god Krishna, often used by him to execute his enemies. In texts such as the Mahabharata, Krishna is described as spinning the Chakram around his finger, and then releasing it towards the enemy. Other than that though, I have never encountered any reference about the Chakram being used by any other Hindu gods or heroes. In the minds of the average Hindu, the Chakram is closely associated with Krishna, and not Sikhism. What I do not understand though is why the weapon declined amongst Hindus, and became popular amongst the Sikhs. Perhaps one must ask whether it was ever actually used by Hindus in combat at all, or whether it was originally just a fantasy weapon. Sikhs may have come to develop the Chakram due to its close association with the Vaishnava bhakti (worship of Vishnu, and his main incarnations Rama and Krishna) movement. Although modern Sikhism promotes the worship of god without form, the early history of the religion is quite different. The Guru Granth mentions Vishnu, Rama and Krishna hundreds of times - often referring to specific events in the lives of these dieties. It also incorporates verses authored by many Vaishnava saints, including Namdev from the Varkari tradition of Maharashtra, who was a staunch idolator. The holiest temple of the Sikhs is called the Harmandir (literally temple of Hari, another name of Vishnu) and had pictures of various Hindu dieties until the very recent Sikh reform movement, and the lake it stands on is supposedly an ancient lake sacred to Vaishnavas. And, even more strange, most of the Sikh gurus are named after Vishnu and his various incarnations: Ram Das (literally devotee of Ram), Hargobind (Hari + Gobind, names of Vishnu and Krishna respectively), Har Krishan (Hari + Krishna), Angad Dev (Angad is a character who helped Rama in the Ramayana), Gobind Singh (Gobind means cow protector, another name for Krishna), Arjan Dev (Arjuna is Krishnas closest friend) and Har Rai (Hari again). Also, Id like to ask, does anyone know if the Chakram is actually effective in combat against an enemy? It seems to me that it is a virtually useless weapon - impractical to carry, hard (likely even risky) to throw, impossible to aim, and ineffective as well.

26th November 2007, 04:34 PM	#2
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Here is a thread on another forum on the topic. http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...hlight=chakrum Josh (The video is worth watching)

26th November 2007, 07:15 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Excelent video. Thanks a thousand, Josh. Fernando

6th December 2007, 09:54 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I feel sure that no one wanted to offend you or anyone else, so if you are offended, please accept my appology. Do you have any comments to the use of the quoit/chakra, either when it comes to where it was used or any other comments. Jens

7th December 2007, 09:37 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	I have found this article on the Chakra, very informative, but the images are missing . Definately worth a look. http://www.whoosh.org/issue8/rudnick6.html Regards David