Keris Identification

PenangsangII · 22nd November 2007, 06:50 AM

Any specific reason why you thought the dapor had been changed or modified? The keris looks very fine to me, and I like it very much also

ferrylaki · 22nd November 2007, 08:15 AM

a pasopati dapur usually has greneng and mine doesnt.
take a look at the ganja, buntut urang section, it might have greneng once.

From all keris pictures I've ever seen, keris with dapur pasopati always shows greneng.
How do you think about the pamor? what kind of pamor is it?
the pamor seen obvious in the centre of the blade, but thats all . not evidence of pamor on other section.

regards,
FERRY

PenangsangII · 22nd November 2007, 08:47 AM

Like you said Ferry, your pasopati used to have greneng though in your case I can see less significant one. Couldnt it be because years of washing? Judging from the steel - it looks old. Some say Pasopati was created during Kadewatan period which is older than Keris Buda...... Though your example definitely younger creation, IMHO, it has some age to it....I cant comment on the pamor that I've never seen before...

ferrylaki · 22nd November 2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Like you said Ferry, your pasopati used to have greneng though in your case I can see less significant one. Couldnt it be because years of washing? Judging from the steel - it looks old. Some say Pasopati was created during Kadewatan period which is older than Keris Buda...... Though your example definitely younger creation, IMHO, it has some age to it....I cant comment on the pamor that I've never seen before...

Thank you PenangsangII,
the pamor on the sor soran section shows a very smooth pamor which I ever seen on lar gangsir pamor. If the greneng was dissappear because of years of washing, the blade it self should be damage also.
Does the fracture between greneng and the warangka can cause the greneng become damage? we're talking abaut wooden warangka here.

I guess we can conclude that this keris have pamor that we cant mention what it is. I'm still curious abaut its pamor.

Well you're the only one who response to my thread.
Thank you very much PenangsangII.

FERRY

Alam Shah · 22nd November 2007, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

... Couldnt it be because years of washing? Judging from the steel - it looks old... Though your example definitely younger creation, IMHO, it has some age to it....I cant comment on the pamor that I've never seen before...

Hmmm... others might be able to help...

A. G. Maisey · 22nd November 2007, 10:31 PM

G'day Ferry,

I've lifted your full length blade pic and massaged it through Photoshop, but I'm sorry, I just cannot see enough detail to have a guess at the pamor.

In my opinion, and based upon what I can see in the photo, this is an old blade that has had the edges cleaned up, and has been reshaped.

Some people regard this as an undesirable practice, however, done skilfully, I do not. If an old blade is worth preserving, and this one is worth preserving, this is one way of ensuring its preservation. OK, its not a national treasure, but it is decent old blade, providing a shadow of its former self. There are two things you can do with a very deteriorated blade such as this one was:- you can clean it, stain it, oil it, put it in sandang walikat and effectively retire it, or you can clean up the edges, reshape it, and make it fit for use as a keris to be worn as an item of dress.

The wrongko is beautiful, and this type of wrongko is not seen all that often---its scarce.

The handle would be better replaced with an East Jawa one.

All in all, I reckon this is a pretty fair sort of keris.

ferrylaki · 23rd November 2007, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

G'day Ferry,

I've lifted your full length blade pic and massaged it through Photoshop, but I'm sorry, I just cannot see enough detail to have a guess at the pamor.

In my opinion, and based upon what I can see in the photo, this is an old blade that has had the edges cleaned up, and has been reshaped.

Some people regard this as an undesirable practice, however, done skilfully, I do not. If an old blade is worth preserving, and this one is worth preserving, this is one way of ensuring its preservation. OK, its not a national treasure, but it is decent old blade, providing a shadow of its former self. There are two things you can do with a very deteriorated blade such as this one was:- you can clean it, stain it, oil it, put it in sandang walikat and effectively retire it, or you can clean up the edges, reshape it, and make it fit for use as a keris to be worn as an item of dress.

The wrongko is beautiful, and this type of wrongko is not seen all that often---its scarce.

The handle would be better replaced with an East Jawa one.

All in all, I reckon this is a pretty fair sort of keris.

Thank you Alan.
I finally met Mr Pauzan. He's very kind person. I found nice kerises in his store, which beyond my buying limit. Not saying it expensive, but good stuff means more money to spend right?

I read the book "keris jawa antara mistik dan nalar" by Mr Haryono last night. I think that pamor type is " SEKAR GLAGAH" . its very similar tho.
Abaut the warangka, this timoho warangka is indeed a scarce wood. as you can see it is just too big and too thick for the keris. I have a plan to give it a new cendana wangi Surakarta Gayaman. It is a reshape keris, people from Surakarta allow to re shape kerises. There is a friend of mine manage to supply me with some cendana wangi gayaman. the trouble is on the hilt. Tayuman wood are very very scarce , and if I find one, the price I have to pay will be high.

I'll post the picture of the gayaman as soon as its ready. I'd like to show to you all the project I made to this keris. There are a numbers of kerises I'd like to show you...hope you all may help me with the restoration.

A. G. Maisey · 23rd November 2007, 01:38 AM

Yeah, Pak Pauzan is a number one class person. A good man. Not many people in Jawa that I trust:- I trust Pak Pus and his family 101%.

Look Ferry, tayuman handles are silly expensive. If you can wait till next time I'm in Solo, sometime next year, I'll give you a piece of wood that has exactly the same qualities as tayuman, but better colour and grain, then you can get it carved.I can even point you to an excellent tukang jejeran.

Keris prices--- you mostly get what you pay for:- pay cheap---get junk; pay in the middle---get something that's OK; pay expensive--- get good---as long as you know what you're doing.

But Ferry, just a quiet word:- let's not talk values, prices & etc here. This is not a market, its a study site. Lets keep it money free. You want talk values, email me and I'll talk all day.

Who is doing the gayam for you?

22nd November 2007, 08:15 AM	#2
ferrylaki Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 285	pasopati dapur a pasopati dapur usually has greneng and mine doesnt. take a look at the ganja, buntut urang section, it might have greneng once. From all keris pictures I've ever seen, keris with dapur pasopati always shows greneng. How do you think about the pamor? what kind of pamor is it? the pamor seen obvious in the centre of the blade, but thats all . not evidence of pamor on other section. regards, FERRY

22nd November 2007, 06:50 AM	#1
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Any specific reason why you thought the dapor had been changed or modified? The keris looks very fine to me, and I like it very much also

22nd November 2007, 08:47 AM	#3
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Like you said Ferry, your pasopati used to have greneng though in your case I can see less significant one. Couldnt it be because years of washing? Judging from the steel - it looks old. Some say Pasopati was created during Kadewatan period which is older than Keris Buda...... Though your example definitely younger creation, IMHO, it has some age to it....I cant comment on the pamor that I've never seen before...

22nd November 2007, 10:31 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	G'day Ferry, I've lifted your full length blade pic and massaged it through Photoshop, but I'm sorry, I just cannot see enough detail to have a guess at the pamor. In my opinion, and based upon what I can see in the photo, this is an old blade that has had the edges cleaned up, and has been reshaped. Some people regard this as an undesirable practice, however, done skilfully, I do not. If an old blade is worth preserving, and this one is worth preserving, this is one way of ensuring its preservation. OK, its not a national treasure, but it is decent old blade, providing a shadow of its former self. There are two things you can do with a very deteriorated blade such as this one was:- you can clean it, stain it, oil it, put it in sandang walikat and effectively retire it, or you can clean up the edges, reshape it, and make it fit for use as a keris to be worn as an item of dress. The wrongko is beautiful, and this type of wrongko is not seen all that often---its scarce. The handle would be better replaced with an East Jawa one. All in all, I reckon this is a pretty fair sort of keris.

23rd November 2007, 01:38 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yeah, Pak Pauzan is a number one class person. A good man. Not many people in Jawa that I trust:- I trust Pak Pus and his family 101%. Look Ferry, tayuman handles are silly expensive. If you can wait till next time I'm in Solo, sometime next year, I'll give you a piece of wood that has exactly the same qualities as tayuman, but better colour and grain, then you can get it carved.I can even point you to an excellent tukang jejeran. Keris prices--- you mostly get what you pay for:- pay cheap---get junk; pay in the middle---get something that's OK; pay expensive--- get good---as long as you know what you're doing. But Ferry, just a quiet word:- let's not talk values, prices & etc here. This is not a market, its a study site. Lets keep it money free. You want talk values, email me and I'll talk all day. Who is doing the gayam for you?