New stick to pick over.

fearn · 15th November 2007, 01:58 AM

Hi Jim,

I'm not sure about the convergence idea of poking someone with a sharp stick. It seems pretty intuitive to me

That said, I'm not comfortable with this item being a nulla. Those are usually fairly primitive, and this one looks like it might have been on a lathe at some point.

Jim McDougall · 15th November 2007, 03:18 AM

Good point Fearn!!!

I was thinking more of the double pointed ends and the idea of using it held in the center, if that was indeed how it was used. I'm obviously not real familiar with these so kinda thinking out loud. As I've noted, Tim's threads and unusual African items are always a welcome learning experience!
All best regards,
Jim

Tim Simmons · 15th November 2007, 07:34 AM

Clearly this is African, I was trying only to make a comparison to an AUS Aboriginal weapon I have seen a "version" of Nulla. Here is a quick sketch of the stick weapon I have seen in the past. Sadly untill somebody comes up with one or I find one in a book or a collection the drawing may as well be a Pooh stick.

Jim McDougall · 15th November 2007, 02:24 PM

Hi Tim,
That is much more like the example I had seen in the earlier research where I considered the similarity to the madu and haladie. I wish I could think of where it was I saw it , but it was definitely African tribe using them! The memory slips outa gear more often these days!

Best regards,
Jim

Tim Simmons · 16th November 2007, 11:33 AM

It is here and I think it is fabulous but I like this sort of thing, at four portions a real snip. This picture gives some idea of the feel of the thing. How about a right hook in the neck just under your jaw bone. Nice

katana · 16th November 2007, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

Hi Jim,

Those are usually fairly primitive, and this one looks like it might have been on a lathe at some point.

Hi Fearn,
it does seem likely that this was turned on a lathe, however primative lathes have been around for centuries, one of the earliest know was around 1300 BC in Ancient Egypt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polelathe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_turning

Regards David

katana · 16th November 2007, 05:46 PM

There is a version of this double ended 'club' from the Gilbert Isles, the picture is not to clear but seems to have 'cut rings' similar to Tim's.

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&cd=13

Tim Simmons · 16th November 2007, 06:20 PM

The grip section is egg shaped. This ovoid section follws most of the weapon not reaching any true round cross section.

Tim Simmons · 16th November 2007, 06:41 PM

This is along the same lines just not as fancy and 10cm longer but they do say it is a throwing club where as my stick is for stabbing at close quarter.
http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/zo...3.16.119_b.jpg

Jim McDougall · 16th November 2007, 08:36 PM

Good call on the note on the early Egyptian lathe Katana! It's amazing how much technology has existed from ancient times.

I'm wondering more on the use of this most interesting double pointed stick, as I am completely unfamiliar with martial arts use of many of these weapons. It seems that held centrally, the sharp points at either end would enable the weapon holder to thrust virtually forward and behind without a great deal of movement...in close quarters such as a melee where such space would be restricted. Would that be correct?

Tim Simmons · 16th November 2007, 10:34 PM

It seems to me that when one is close in with a weapon like this aided with a punching parrying shield. Ideally a stabbing action would win the day. Two points would mean a possible hit on a return or being ready for the next strike without any fancy maneuver. For sure the warriors that used these did not just wave them about screaming "ugagabunga" they would have been skilled in there use.

16th November 2007, 05:46 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	There is a version of this double ended 'club' from the Gilbert Isles, the picture is not to clear but seems to have 'cut rings' similar to Tim's. http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&cd=13 Attached Images

16th November 2007, 06:41 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	This is along the same lines just not as fancy and 10cm longer but they do say it is a throwing club where as my stick is for stabbing at close quarter. http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/zo...3.16.119_b.jpg Last edited by Tim Simmons; 16th November 2007 at 06:53 PM.

15th November 2007, 01:58 AM	#1
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Jim, I'm not sure about the convergence idea of poking someone with a sharp stick. It seems pretty intuitive to me That said, I'm not comfortable with this item being a nulla. Those are usually fairly primitive, and this one looks like it might have been on a lathe at some point.

15th November 2007, 03:18 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Good point Fearn!!! I was thinking more of the double pointed ends and the idea of using it held in the center, if that was indeed how it was used. I'm obviously not real familiar with these so kinda thinking out loud. As I've noted, Tim's threads and unusual African items are always a welcome learning experience! All best regards, Jim

15th November 2007, 07:34 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Clearly this is African, I was trying only to make a comparison to an AUS Aboriginal weapon I have seen a "version" of Nulla. Here is a quick sketch of the stick weapon I have seen in the past. Sadly untill somebody comes up with one or I find one in a book or a collection the drawing may as well be a Pooh stick.

15th November 2007, 02:24 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Hi Tim, That is much more like the example I had seen in the earlier research where I considered the similarity to the madu and haladie. I wish I could think of where it was I saw it , but it was definitely African tribe using them! The memory slips outa gear more often these days! Best regards, Jim

16th November 2007, 11:33 AM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	It is here and I think it is fabulous but I like this sort of thing, at four portions a real snip. This picture gives some idea of the feel of the thing. How about a right hook in the neck just under your jaw bone. Nice

16th November 2007, 06:20 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	The grip section is egg shaped. This ovoid section follws most of the weapon not reaching any true round cross section.

16th November 2007, 08:36 PM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Good call on the note on the early Egyptian lathe Katana! It's amazing how much technology has existed from ancient times. I'm wondering more on the use of this most interesting double pointed stick, as I am completely unfamiliar with martial arts use of many of these weapons. It seems that held centrally, the sharp points at either end would enable the weapon holder to thrust virtually forward and behind without a great deal of movement...in close quarters such as a melee where such space would be restricted. Would that be correct?

16th November 2007, 10:34 PM	#11
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	It seems to me that when one is close in with a weapon like this aided with a punching parrying shield. Ideally a stabbing action would win the day. Two points would mean a possible hit on a return or being ready for the next strike without any fancy maneuver. For sure the warriors that used these did not just wave them about screaming "ugagabunga" they would have been skilled in there use.