sucker for African sickles

[roanoa]

Hi, Tim. Fantastic blades. The similarities with the Ethiopian shotels are striking (no pun intended). And talking about shotels...... I hate to bring this up again, and I agree that my opinion is not worth that much, BUT let me start by saying that the shotel may be very curved or almost straight. Regardless of the curvature, it is virtually impossible to do any damage by "reaching around the opponent's shield". If you have a shotel you can try.... You may just be able to tickle your opponents and while doing so you will leave yourself wide open to be stabbed. I guess the "reaching around the shield" is one of those myths that eons ago someone thought of, put in writing and became gospel. Lots of these "myths" around as you all well know. The shotel is used to strike with the TIP and it has lots of periferal striking force. Then again, it's only my opinion.

[Tim Simmons]

Thank you roanoa, I would agree with you. The head, face, neck and shoulders would be very vulnerable to hammer like blows from these weapons. The more I play with this it becomes all the more obvious and the realisation of the frightful wound that must have been inflicted is not nice.

[Emanuel]

I am still waiting to receive my first shotel, but I've always had the impression that shotel are double-edged - is that correct? If so, then what would stop them being used like shamshir?

Regards,
Emanuel

[Luc LEFEBVRE]

Nice exemples Tim, I had one but I don't kept it.
I have these sickled weapons :
Luc

[Luc LEFEBVRE]

The one I had.
Luc

[Jim McDougall]

Fernando and Tim, thank you so much for answering my question, and I apologize for missing your answers. I somehow overlooked this thread while involved elsewhere and I try to avoid letting that happen. The reason I was curious is that I had one of these also, and seem to recall Congo regions noted with it but could not recall.

It does seem that 19th century collectors did tend to apply practical manners of use according to presumption by the shape of blades etc. without actually seeing them used, especially with the 'throwing knives' for example. On the shotel, the severe tip on the deeply curves examples does seem likely to have had purpose for reaching over shields in downward stroke, as well of course for hooking and slashing...but as Roanoa has noted, such movement would leave the weapon holder wide open, so without having 'been there' in the battles....predictable assumption.

As Roanoa has noted, and as we are discussing on a concurrent thread, shotels seem to have had certain range in the curvatures...hopefully others interested in these might add to the Abyssinian shotel thread


Very nice example of this type Tim, thanks for showing the interesting geometrics on the blade, and nice grouping you have shown Luc!!

Any thoughts on that opening at the base of the blade at the hilt?

All the best,
Jim

[fearn]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

--snip--

It does seem that 19th century collectors did tend to apply practical manners of use according to presumption by the shape of blades etc. without actually seeing them used, especially with the 'throwing knives' for example. On the shotel, the severe tip on the deeply curves examples does seem likely to have had purpose for reaching over shields in downward stroke, as well of course for hooking and slashing...but as Roanoa has noted, such movement would leave the weapon holder wide open, so without having 'been there' in the battles....predictable assumption.

--snip--

All the best,
Jim

Just wanted to respond to the shotel question. There is an interesting essay by Hank Reinhardt on shotel use. The relevant paragraphs are quoted below:

"Wooden swords edged with shark's teeth, draw cuts, pulling cuts, slashes -- all of these are understandable, but there has always been one type of sword and fighting technique that fills me with . . . well, I'm not sure what. You decide: The Abyssinian shotel is a long curved double-edged sword. At first glance, it looks like a Near Eastern scimitar, but on closer inspection you realize that the curve is a full half circle. And it is, I repeat, double-edged. The blade, generally, is a flattened, diamond cross section and quite stiff.

The natives fight with these swords from behind large, circular leather shields. Rather than try to cut through the shield, or feint it out of the way, they reach around it to hook their opponent with the point of the sword. I think you can image what a strange type of combat it must be. Many years ago, when the movie theaters had shorts subjects, I saw a travelogue that briefly showed two Abyssinians "fencing" with sword and shield. They hoped and ducked and bounced all around, with the long curved swords moving in very awkward ways. Really strange.

When you handle a shotel you realize that it isn't very effective for slicing, nor slashing, and certainly not built for thrusting, but it is pretty good for hooking, and that is how it should be judged." (source: There is no best sword)

He seems to be saying that he actually saw the shotel used around a shield. Weird but true, and contrary to what Roanoa was saying. We really need someone with experience using it to speak up.

My 0.02 cents,

F