Early Islamic Signature

[Jens Nordlunde]

Rand, a very interesting observation, I wonder how many made the same observation - I did not, although I should have.

[rand]

Some Early Ottoman swords and one other.......

Top sword dates 1481-1512
Overall length 100cm
Blade length 85cm

Second sword dated 1506-7
Overall length 92cm
Blade length 81cm

Third sword
dated 1506-7
Overall length 95.5cm
Blade length 80.5cm

Fourth sword
Overall length 91cm
Blade length 79.5cm

[Jens Nordlunde]

A fantastic display Rand. One who may be able to help with a translation, is the former director of Top Kapi Museum in Istanbul, Yuncel - if he is still alive.
Jens

[rand]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

A fantastic display Rand. One who may be able to help with a translation, is the former director of Top Kapi Museum in Istanbul, Yuncel - if he is still alive.
Jens

Hey Jens,

Have followed up on your suggestion and sent an email attention to him to the Islamic Research group he worked with....

rand

[rand]

Thanks to Sancar Ozar and his fellow Turkish Art historian have a translation of the inscriptions.

"Sorry for the late answer. I sent pictures of inscriptions on the kilic to a fellow art historian friend of mine from university who is very experienced on translating old letters. He was very busy and so he could return my e-mail today.Anyway according to his mail inscription in the picture is translated as "Bismillah" (İn the Name of Allah). He only could partially read the second inscription(which is in the right direction in the last picture you posted) because the gold inlay had partially come off. İt is a word, something like "namirun"(well, it is how it sounds when you write in Turkish,I guess it should sound like "neameeroon" for english sepakers). I have no idea what it means."

Thank You again Sancar and friend.....

rand

[rand]

Looked up namirun to see if it was Arabic, turns out it is and means tiger....

rand

[rand]

Comments received from Sancar Ozer....

"Tiger is the totem of "alp" warrior class in Turkic societies. Alp(alıp,alıb, alpago,alpakut etc.) and/or Batur(bagatur, baatur,batyr, bahadır etc.) were the name of a class of noble cavalry warriors who serve under a "bey". The word itself means hero or warrior in old Turkish and a popular name throughout Turkish history. Historians believe this warrior type formed in Central Asia in 6th century and continued to exist till 18th century. Tımarlı Sipahi cavalries were their last manifestation. İt can be compared to samurai and knight warrior classes of Japan and Europe.
Anyway tiger is widely used as those warriors' main symbol. İt symbolised strength and fighting spirit and it is closely related to shamanistic religion of central asian Turks. Alps used to wear tiger skin on their armour. Then they started to decorate thir clothes with tiger stripe motifs(a.k.a chinese clouds) And people used to name their sons after this symbol. You can find a large amount of warrior kings and heros with the name of "tiger" in Turkish (or Turkic, I really don't know what is the difference) history.Two examples are Sultan Baybars(Bey+pars=Lord+panther-difference between leopard and tiger is not clear in old turkish language)of Memluklu and Babur Şah of Mughal empires."

Thank You for this information Sancar,

rand