Nice real old one from Bali

drdavid · 16th October 2007, 09:20 AM

Dear Alan
could you explain the term 'black stars' please. Do you mean a dark sapphire or ruby with a star inclusion which show up when cabachon cut or is it something different?
cheers
DrD

David · 16th October 2007, 02:32 PM

David, if it is the "black star" that i am familar with it would be diopside, a fairly inexpensive, though pretty, stone.

A. G. Maisey · 16th October 2007, 10:58 PM

Yeah, that's the stuff.

In fact, none of the stones in this handle are particularly valuable, there is a fair bit of gold in the handle, but the thing that sets it apart from other Balinese gold handles is the standard of workmanship:- three different authorities in this field of art have appraised it as the finest work in any gold Balinese handle that they have seen; I myself have never seen any better work. I believe it is probably one of the finest, if not the finest, Balinese keris hilt in existence.

Battara · 17th October 2007, 01:30 AM

thank you Alan for the explaination of the wax process involved and the pictures.

David · 17th October 2007, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In fact, none of the stones in this handle are particularly valuable, there is a fair bit of gold in the handle, but the thing that sets it apart from other Balinese gold handles is the standard of workmanship:- three different authorities in this field of art have appraised it as the finest work in any gold Balinese handle that they have seen; I myself have never seen any better work. I believe it is probably one of the finest, if not the finest, Balinese keris hilt in existence.

Yes, i think i must agree. Of course i have never had the pleasure of examining anything of this quality in person as i am sure you have Alan. But if you look at the photo in Jessup's book the quality really shines through. If anyone doubts this i really recommend you find this book. Unfortunately the photos in this thread do not do it any justice.

A. G. Maisey · 17th October 2007, 03:23 AM

Yeah, the one shown in Jessup undoubtedly has much more value in the stones, and the workmanship in the handle (ie, ignoring the wrongko) is also excellent. I think you'd probably need the two handles, side by side, in the hand to make a judgement on which one has the superior workmanship. I know that I have never seen a handle of this type that is of as good quality workmanship as the one I posted pics of, and apparently neither had the three art authorities who appraised it. Actually, when you get into this area of quality, there are very few pieces with which to make comparison.

David · 17th October 2007, 02:28 PM

Sorry Alan, my bad....i thought you were referring to the one in Jessup that started this thread. I now realize that you meant the example that you linked to. Yeah, it would be a tough call to decide which one of these 2 hilts was actually the better one. I certainly couldn't choose based on the pictures alone.

A. G. Maisey · 17th October 2007, 10:14 PM

David, whenever we try to evaluate any really superior art work we are faced with this problem. It is not just the quality of the work, or the intrinsic value of the components, it is a certain intangible that only becomes apparent when we are actually face to face with the work in question.

Most often we don't even understand why one piece has a higher impact than the other.

So at this level it does not become just a matter of deciding which expression of art is superior to the other in terms of workmanship, technical excellence and intrinsic value, it becomes a matter of trying to understand which piece of art will have the deepest effect on the greatest number of people. Which piece will worm its way into the sub-conscious and strike a chord.

Seldom does the power and essence of great art make itself felt through a photograph.

16th October 2007, 02:32 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,233	David, if it is the "black star" that i am familar with it would be diopside, a fairly inexpensive, though pretty, stone. Attached Images

16th October 2007, 09:20 AM	#1
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 372	Dear Alan could you explain the term 'black stars' please. Do you mean a dark sapphire or ruby with a star inclusion which show up when cabachon cut or is it something different? cheers DrD

16th October 2007, 10:58 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Yeah, that's the stuff. In fact, none of the stones in this handle are particularly valuable, there is a fair bit of gold in the handle, but the thing that sets it apart from other Balinese gold handles is the standard of workmanship:- three different authorities in this field of art have appraised it as the finest work in any gold Balinese handle that they have seen; I myself have never seen any better work. I believe it is probably one of the finest, if not the finest, Balinese keris hilt in existence.

17th October 2007, 01:30 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,316	thank you Alan for the explaination of the wax process involved and the pictures.

17th October 2007, 03:23 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Yeah, the one shown in Jessup undoubtedly has much more value in the stones, and the workmanship in the handle (ie, ignoring the wrongko) is also excellent. I think you'd probably need the two handles, side by side, in the hand to make a judgement on which one has the superior workmanship. I know that I have never seen a handle of this type that is of as good quality workmanship as the one I posted pics of, and apparently neither had the three art authorities who appraised it. Actually, when you get into this area of quality, there are very few pieces with which to make comparison.

17th October 2007, 02:28 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,233	Sorry Alan, my bad....i thought you were referring to the one in Jessup that started this thread. I now realize that you meant the example that you linked to. Yeah, it would be a tough call to decide which one of these 2 hilts was actually the better one. I certainly couldn't choose based on the pictures alone.

17th October 2007, 10:14 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	David, whenever we try to evaluate any really superior art work we are faced with this problem. It is not just the quality of the work, or the intrinsic value of the components, it is a certain intangible that only becomes apparent when we are actually face to face with the work in question. Most often we don't even understand why one piece has a higher impact than the other. So at this level it does not become just a matter of deciding which expression of art is superior to the other in terms of workmanship, technical excellence and intrinsic value, it becomes a matter of trying to understand which piece of art will have the deepest effect on the greatest number of people. Which piece will worm its way into the sub-conscious and strike a chord. Seldom does the power and essence of great art make itself felt through a photograph.