Kukri for coments

[fernando]

Thank you very much indeed, Andreas.
I am starting to get an impulse to tell the seller that he has cheated me. He assured me that this piece was gathered by a certain collector by latest 1920. Now i see that this piece didn't even exist in that period. In this case i don't reject the idea that the scabbard was probably an old ( older ?) item that was added to this kukri, which would have been unsheathed at a certain stage.
So this is an Indian kukri, not Nepalese, right?
And is its style called Sirupate ?
Thanks again for sharing examples from your collection.
Kind regards
fernando

[Andreas Volk]

Originally Posted by fernando

Thank you very much indeed, Andreas.
I am starting to get an impulse to tell the seller that he has cheated me. He assured me that this piece was gathered by a certain collector by latest 1920 .... So this is an Indian kukri, not Nepalese, right?
And is its style called Sirupate ? ...
fernando

Hi Fernando.
Sorry if I caused some confusion here - the "sirupate" reffered to my bone handled piece. Sirupate are defined by a very slender blade profile where it
is hard to tell the "widest" part of the blade (belly).
My bone handled piece borrows a lot from this slender, thin waisted style -
I would not call yours a sirupate.
The style you show to my knowledge has been arround from between that wars until even after WW2.

When you mention 1900 to 1920 as the time when said collection was gathered - that looks like a very "rough" assessment to me as well.
As I said - I can't exclude that this if from the early 1920s (and spiral would not even exclude WW1).
I can't recall a WW1 kukri with the features shown by your piece - but spiral has handled a lot more kukri than I have.

those "soldier souvenir kukris" that show up during WW2 have been sold in India. To my information Nepal was still a type of "forbidden kingdom" then.
If those smiths manufacturing pieces for the indian basars where of nepalese descent or even nepalese immigrants I don't know.
Maybe another forumite has some info on the backround of these kamis.

With the scabbard being leather one pointer to these "indian WW souvenirs" goes away.

sorry that I can't be more precise - I understand the need for precise time frames and clear statements about the origin - but with your piece this is
hard to do.
All I can do is listing the features and refer them to pieces where I have info about origin and time of manufacture.

Andreas

[Ronald]

Hello Fernando and all other forum-members,

In Nepali / Ghorkali language Sirupati literally means "lilly leaf". It is said, that it was mainly used in West Nepal, while in the East the broad-bladed Kukuri were used. But please don't consider this as an "iron rule"! One finds both versions all over the country. The Sirupati not only has narrow blade, but it is often much shorter. It might be rather strongly curved or not. You see: The exist many variations, and the National Museum in Kathmandu shows them all.


Kind regards,

Ronald

[spiral]

I think its possibly from Darjeeling area Fernando, A Nepali enclave in India. But thats only because I have seen similar from there. But It is just an opinion or idea.

Andreas`s points are excelent..... Rod also has great expierience.

In conclusian I think, From Darjeeling area, 1920 to 1945. But I wont rule out post 1910 or Rods, 1950s either. although I think both extremes are doubtfull.

I think the scabbard was made for a differnt kukri probabably.

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Where is John Powell these days!!! Has anyone heard from him? I think his research on the kukri was not only comprehensive but profound and he was I believe working on a book on them.

Unfortuanatly Jim a lot of Johns information which was great pioneering work at the time has prooved rather innacurate in places after more research. He tried to have all his work on the net deleted or updated but sadley some people refused to do so apparently. He has stated on a forum elswere that it should be ignored. Most of it was compiled during his early research many years ago.

.He said to me last December he still reads the forums, but sadley doesnt particpate at the time bieng.The vast majority of his collection has been sold over the past 2 years. Including the rarest & most outstanding pieces

Unfourtuantly some of Ronalds points were part of those intial errors.

Originally Posted by Ronald

In Nepali / Ghorkali language Sirupati literally means "lilly leaf". It is said, that it was mainly used in West Nepal, while in the East the broad-bladed Kukuri were used. But please don't consider this as an "iron rule"! One finds both versions all over the country. The Sirupati not only has narrow blade, but it is often much shorter. It might be rather strongly curved or not. You see: The exist many variations, and the National Museum in Kathmandu shows them all.

Hello Ranald, Nice to find someone else who likes kukris here!

I must point out that Siru is a type of long slender grass not a lilly.

In Nepalese. Lily is "Kamal"

But indeed your correct that pati is leaf...


Sirupate kukri were originaly mostly favoured by the Rai & Limbu tribes of eastern Nepal, The western tribes prefered broader bladed kukri, but as you say both are found throughout Nepal.

Getting the east west identification the wrong way originated from JPs piece on Sword Furom, I think?

Sirupati come in many lengths I have them with 11inch to 18 inch blades within my collection. several around the 15 to 16 inch mark.

Your right the National museam in Kathmadu is amazing! Have you been there? I spent 2 days there but could have spent weeks. So many fascinating pieces....


Spiral

[fernando]

Thank you so much, Andreas, Ronald and Jonathan ... and Jim
The order was aleatory
I can't complain for lack of support on this thread.
Now all i have to do is digest all the info, wondering whether such amount of input is more valuable than my humble kukri .
Thanks again
Fernando

[Ronald]

Hello Fernando and all other forum-members,

in Nepali / Ghorkali language Sirupati literally means "lilly leaf". It is said, that it was mainly used in West Nepal, while in the East the broad-bladed Kukuri were used. But please don't consider this as an "iron rule"! One finds both versions all over the country. The Sirupati not only has narrow blade, but it is often much shorter. It might be rather strongly curved or not. You see: The exist many variations, and the National Museum in Kathmandu shows them all.


Kind regards,

Ronald

[fernando]

I am sorry i have forgotten to attach in my posting #7 pictures of kukri blade in comparison to scabbard dimensions, as sugested by Jonathan.
Thanks
Fernando