Ethiopian Sabre and Mystery sword just won on eBay..comments please?

[katana]

Hi, just won these two swords (both swords in the same auction), my first Ethiopian sabre 35", looks to be 'overly' cleaned but looks in good condition.

The second has a 'Tulwar' styled hilt , straight blade with 'WHITES' stamped on the blade OAL 33". It is either 'vintage' or, again, overly cleaned.

Comments, information on age, origin etc on either of the swords would be greatly appreciated...

Regards David

[tom hyle]

The straight sword seems European/Eurocolonial. Are you sure there's not a wooden handle under a wire wrap there? The cross-shaped guard does seem Turk/Persian derived. Did it once have a knucklebow, or why the asymetry to quillon and pommel?

[katana]

Originally Posted by tom hyle

The straight sword seems European/Eurocolonial. Are you sure there's not a wooden handle under a wire wrap there? The cross-shaped guard does seem Turk/Persian derived. Did it once have a knucklebow, or why the asymetry to quillon and pommel?

Hi Tom,
Thanks for the reply I did notice that there once could have been a knucklebow...unfortunately I do not have the sword in my possession yet, so can't really comment but judging from the pics it seems there was a knucklebow which was removed due to damage or 'customisation'. I had assumed the handle was wood but again wont know until I received it.

[kronckew]

rats, was watching & gonna bid on those, my system crashed, just got it back a few min. ago.would have liked the ethiopian sabre, not sure about the straight sword tho. good price for the pair! ah, well, now i can increase my bid on the next one
nice snag katana.

p.s. - it does look like there was a protrusion on the guard and a corresponding one on the pommel of the straight sword that could have once been a knuckle guard, now removed and well rounded over.

[katana]

Originally Posted by kronckew

nice snag katana.

.

Thanks Kronckew,
I was surprised at the final price.

The straight sword is likely British made. There was a sword cutler called Jonathon White working in the Strand from 1780 to 1795 but at this time their blades were usually marked 'WHITES LONDON'. I would imagine that if this sword was made by the same swordsmiths ....that this was made after 1795. Bearing in mind that millitary pattern swords became straighter bladed as the 19th c progressed, this could be 19th c.

I have not been able to find a similar hilted sword....I beginning to wonder whether this was a 'custom' piece based on a Indian inspired hilt. If so, it is interesting that the 'disc' pommel is quite small therefore allowing more wrist movement. But would assume that as the sword is more 'cut and thrust' this would be important.

[RSWORD]

As far as hilt similarities with your straight bladed sword I would look at the US Cadet sword for those that graduate West Point. The hilt reminds me of those swords.

[katana]

Originally Posted by RSWORD

As far as hilt similarities with your straight bladed sword I would look at the US Cadet sword for those that graduate West Point. The hilt reminds me of those swords.

Hi RS,
thanks for the input, there are similarities, however it seems there is a rigid 'pattern' for West Point and the other military academies. I have searched and have not found it's 'twin'. Apparently the West Point 'pattern' was changed in the 1920's so it is possible that this is the earlier pattern...but cannot find any images to prove/disprove this.

I still feel that this is a British sword with 'colonial' overtones. Should be receiving it soon....perhaps then I will have more to 'go on

[Jerseyman]

Just seen this very old thread and have relevant information.

The stamped appellation 'Whites London' on the forte of a blade is from a theatrical costumiers called Whites - they were in business from the mid 19C for just over a hundred years until they were bought out by Foxes, another theatrical supplier. They were primarily known for armour, weapons and jewellery. I have actually spoken with one of their last employees.

It is sometimes suggested that the name refers to Jonathan White, a cutler on the Strand 1780 -1795 - but IMHO the stamp is far too modern/industrial for the period.

The National Maritime museum has a Whites blade, as does the Theatre museum, now subsumed into the Victoria & Albert museum collections.

I have a small collection of their weapons ranging across their whole period of production, all with exactly the same stamp. It is very clear that they are theatrical weapons.

If I can locate the relevant notebook I shall post more information.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jerseyman

Just seen this very old thread and have relevant information.

The stamped appellation 'Whites London' on the forte of a blade is from a theatrical costumiers called Whites - they were in business from the mid 19C for just over a hundred years until they were bought out by Foxes, another theatrical supplier. They were primarily known for armour, weapons and jewellery. I have actually spoken with one of their last employees.

It is sometimes suggested that the name refers to Jonathan White, a cutler on the Strand 1780 -1795 - but IMHO the stamp is far too modern/industrial for the period.

The National Maritime museum has a Whites blade, as does the Theatre museum, now subsumed into the Victoria & Albert museum collections.

I have a small collection of their weapons ranging across their whole period of production, all with exactly the same stamp. It is very clear that they are theatrical weapons.

If I can locate the relevant notebook I shall post more information.

Ah! that is very impressive well spotted!! Great research... I nearly said Free Masons sword... ... Theatrical indeed! seems accurate.

[Ian]

Thanks Jerseyman. Good spotting in an old post!

Pictures documenting these weapons by White would be great to add to our archives and future reference. You might like to start a new thread on theatrical weapons, as this is a topic that has received little attention here.

Ian.