Mexican (?) Dagger for Identification?

Ian · 11th March 2005, 03:50 PM

Hi Mike:

These are Brazilian in origin, I believe. You will find an example in Levine, listed as a faca da ponta, if I recall correctly.

I have a couple of these. Is the blade sharpened on this one? Mine are mostly non-functional and probably made for the tourist trade.

Pretty knife and well put together.

Ian.

Conogre · 11th March 2005, 08:29 PM

LOL!
Score three for Levine's, the khodme, the corvo (if it wasn't for tequila I'd never remember this one!**grin**) and now the faca da ponta!
Thank you Ian and no, not sharpened, so useless except for stabbing, although, due to its size, I'll likely sharpen it for my own personal use with a good T-bone!**another grin**
I've GOT to remember to utilize the Levine's...as the "real" weapons book collection slowly grows it's too easy to put that one back in the corner and forget it.
Mike

Montino Bourbon · 11th March 2005, 11:09 PM

Pardon my ignorance, but what is 'The levine's'?

Rick · 15th March 2005, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montino Bourbon

Pardon my ignorance, but what is 'The levine's'?

Levine's Guide to Knives and Their Values (Levine's Guide to Knives and Their Values, 5th ed)

A good general reference , reasonably priced too !

Ian · 15th March 2005, 07:45 PM

Ray:

I think those older ones are nice examples of functional faca. As Tom points out, there is a similarity to the Mediterranean style of knife, and the stacked hilt is reminiscent of Canary Island knives (also a Spanish colony in the 19th C.) as well as the Chilean corvo, with a mix of bone and horn slices, iron and brass spacers. The conical bolster is seen on older Chilean corvo (as Tom has said).

Here are some archived pictures from previous posts that show Chilean corvo. The last one is a post-WWII tourist corvo in a more contemporary style. There are recently made military and civilian forms of the corvo also.

Ian.

Ian · 15th March 2005, 08:11 PM

and its the best one I've seen. This silver handled corvo comes in a red tooled leather sheath. The mode of wearing the corvo is illustrated in the picture of an officer in the 19th C. Chilean Army.

Ian.

knife7knut · 11th March 2005, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi Mike:

These are Brazilian in origin, I believe. You will find an example in Levine, listed as a faca da ponta, if I recall correctly.

I have a couple of these. Is the blade sharpened on this one? Mine are mostly non-functional and probably made for the tourist trade.

Pretty knife and well put together.

Ian.

Thank you Ian:
I have 3 of them as well and two of the pieces have an unusual cone-shape that is integral with the blade right where it joins the handle.The smaller one for some reason does not.
I also notice that the rings are of a different color on all the examples. Do you know if there is some significance to the coloring?
Thanks anyway for the ID.I am enclosing a couple of pictures.
Cheers
Ray

tom hyle · 12th March 2005, 03:42 AM

The pointed bolster is seen on Chilean corvo.

Conogre · 15th March 2005, 05:32 AM

knife7knut, cn I ask a question or two?
What are the sizes of yours and, are all three unsharpened?
From the photographs, the two larger pieces seem to be very well made and if not sharp, at least intendend to BE sharpened and look like nicely made weapons intended for real use.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that what is usually seen on the tourist market didn't, like so many others. originally was a very real working knife for a certain class of people.

Montino Bourbon, I've got to find mine before I can give you the whole title, but it's a collector's guide book of knives and weapons from several years back that even gave the average going price at the time of its printing.
Mike

tom hyle · 15th March 2005, 11:36 AM

Oh, this is no decorator style; these are Mediterranean dirks; traditional dagger-knives found around the Mediterranean, from kodme to kard to Corsican stilettoe (not double-edged like the familiar Itallian one). Very very similar styles are still made and sold in Spain and Itally, as well as in a variety of former colonies, including, for instance, the Canary Islands and at least parts of S America (ex gaucho knives/daggers). The blades vary from thin wedge-section working knives to sabre-ground dagger blades with fullers and/or double-edged points of a type most familiar to modern people as bayonets, though in fact a traditional European dagger style from medieval times. I just saw some nice Itallian ones on a PBS travel show where they visitted a town known for cutlers. The lagnet/bolster may be a regional distinquisher; I've seen it on corvos, but also on Med. dirk styles like these, which may or may not be Chilean. The round handle is fairly typical of the Spanish/Itallian ones, as is the stacking. The globe pommel is one of two type ends, the other being simply tapered down to a pommel nut, though even so that is often a tiny globe.

knife7knut · 15th March 2005, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conogre

knife7knut, cn I ask a question or two?
What are the sizes of yours and, are all three unsharpened?
From the photographs, the two larger pieces seem to be very well made and if not sharp, at least intendend to BE sharpened and look like nicely made weapons intended for real use.
Mike

Mike:
The photos were taken on a grid of 1" squares(my usual method to denote size;I should have stated that before)and yas all three are unsharpened.
They were obtained from 3 different sources over the years.The first was given to me by a friend who used to purchase military collections and dump everything else at flea markets and such.The other two were obtained at other flea markets ostensibly as letter openers.I don't think I paid more than a couple dollars each for them.
This person also had a large assortment of Phillipino and African knives that I acquired a few of including a couple of swords made entirely of water buffalo horn (obviously for the tourist trade).
Cheers
Ray

Ian · 16th March 2005, 08:41 PM

just finished on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6517209947

Conogre · 19th March 2005, 03:58 AM

Mine arrived today and, as suspected/predicted is unsharpened, something that will soon be remedied if it's to have any use as a SKOW (steak knife of the world! **grin**).
The leatherwork on the sheath seems likely to be Brazilian as well, making me suspect that these were likely the precursors to the Goucho knives before the fancy silver incarnation that we associate with them today.
If used as a working knife it would seem that the blades would be particularly nasty as a fighting weapon or an assasination type blade that could be used without anyone ever being the wiser until the perpetrator was long gone.
I suspect that here's a case where we are seeing the devolution of a weapon as opposed to the evolution that we normally think about?
Mike

15th March 2005, 07:45 PM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,396	Corvo, Faca, etc. Ray: I think those older ones are nice examples of functional faca. As Tom points out, there is a similarity to the Mediterranean style of knife, and the stacked hilt is reminiscent of Canary Island knives (also a Spanish colony in the 19th C.) as well as the Chilean corvo, with a mix of bone and horn slices, iron and brass spacers. The conical bolster is seen on older Chilean corvo (as Tom has said). Here are some archived pictures from previous posts that show Chilean corvo. The last one is a post-WWII tourist corvo in a more contemporary style. There are recently made military and civilian forms of the corvo also. Ian. Attached Images Last edited by Ian; 15th March 2005 at 08:22 PM.

15th March 2005, 08:11 PM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,396	One more corvo ... and its the best one I've seen. This silver handled corvo comes in a red tooled leather sheath. The mode of wearing the corvo is illustrated in the picture of an officer in the 19th C. Chilean Army. Ian. Attached Images

16th March 2005, 08:41 PM	#12
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,396	Another example ... just finished on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6517209947

11th March 2005, 03:50 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,396	Hi Mike: These are Brazilian in origin, I believe. You will find an example in Levine, listed as a faca da ponta, if I recall correctly. I have a couple of these. Is the blade sharpened on this one? Mine are mostly non-functional and probably made for the tourist trade. Pretty knife and well put together. Ian.

11th March 2005, 08:29 PM	#2
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	LOL! Score three for Levine's, the khodme, the corvo (if it wasn't for tequila I'd never remember this one!grin) and now the faca da ponta! Thank you Ian and no, not sharpened, so useless except for stabbing, although, due to its size, I'll likely sharpen it for my own personal use with a good T-bone!another grin I've GOT to remember to utilize the Levine's...as the "real" weapons book collection slowly grows it's too easy to put that one back in the corner and forget it. Mike

11th March 2005, 11:09 PM	#3
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	Pardon my ignorance, but what is 'The levine's'?

12th March 2005, 03:42 AM	#8
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	The pointed bolster is seen on Chilean corvo.

15th March 2005, 05:32 AM	#9
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	knife7knut, cn I ask a question or two? What are the sizes of yours and, are all three unsharpened? From the photographs, the two larger pieces seem to be very well made and if not sharp, at least intendend to BE sharpened and look like nicely made weapons intended for real use. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that what is usually seen on the tourist market didn't, like so many others. originally was a very real working knife for a certain class of people. Montino Bourbon, I've got to find mine before I can give you the whole title, but it's a collector's guide book of knives and weapons from several years back that even gave the average going price at the time of its printing. Mike

15th March 2005, 11:36 AM	#10
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Oh, this is no decorator style; these are Mediterranean dirks; traditional dagger-knives found around the Mediterranean, from kodme to kard to Corsican stilettoe (not double-edged like the familiar Itallian one). Very very similar styles are still made and sold in Spain and Itally, as well as in a variety of former colonies, including, for instance, the Canary Islands and at least parts of S America (ex gaucho knives/daggers). The blades vary from thin wedge-section working knives to sabre-ground dagger blades with fullers and/or double-edged points of a type most familiar to modern people as bayonets, though in fact a traditional European dagger style from medieval times. I just saw some nice Itallian ones on a PBS travel show where they visitted a town known for cutlers. The lagnet/bolster may be a regional distinquisher; I've seen it on corvos, but also on Med. dirk styles like these, which may or may not be Chilean. The round handle is fairly typical of the Spanish/Itallian ones, as is the stacking. The globe pommel is one of two type ends, the other being simply tapered down to a pommel nut, though even so that is often a tiny globe.

19th March 2005, 03:58 AM	#13
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Mine arrived today and, as suspected/predicted is unsharpened, something that will soon be remedied if it's to have any use as a SKOW (steak knife of the world! grin). The leatherwork on the sheath seems likely to be Brazilian as well, making me suspect that these were likely the precursors to the Goucho knives before the fancy silver incarnation that we associate with them today. If used as a working knife it would seem that the blades would be particularly nasty as a fighting weapon or an assasination type blade that could be used without anyone ever being the wiser until the perpetrator was long gone. I suspect that here's a case where we are seeing the devolution of a weapon as opposed to the evolution that we normally think about? Mike