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Berkley · 10th August 2007, 02:13 AM

Jim,
Here is a little pistol which illustrates several points that Fernando has raised. This is a screw-barrel or turn-off barrel pistol opened to show the position of the ball. As Fernando says, this forms a tight seal in the bore by using an oversized lead ball of greater than bore diameter, which eliminates the “windage” necessary to push a ball down the barrel from the muzzle with a ramrod, and makes a relatively high-powered small pistol. This particular pistol is of later manufacture, common design, and decidedly inferior workmanship to Fernando's elegant example. Although marked “London”, it in fact has Birmingham proof marks. It is also marked H Nock, although that famous London maker would not have turned out anything of this rough quality. (In any event, he died before the Birmingham proof house was established). In short, it’s an English pistol that was intentionally mismarked when made to deceive the original buyer with a spurious claim of greater quality than it possessed, or as Fernando says, "increase the image of the product".

Berkley

Jim McDougall · 10th August 2007, 03:02 AM

Outstanding Berkley!! Thank you so much for the excellent presentation!
I know that I very much enjoy learning more on early firearms, a topic I admittedly have always sidestepped in studying weapons.
Nicely done and much appreciated.

All best regards,
Jim

fernando · 10th August 2007, 03:17 PM

Excelent,Berkley.
The clearest way to show it.
Eventualy the examples i have within this area, would not be good for such demonstration.
One has a similar shape and decoration, although of poorer quality, without any maker or proof marks, but with a fix barrel.
The other is a Liege marked one, with a screwing facility that is stuck and, despite all reasonal efforts, i could never unscrew it. I think this happens often with this system or, at least, i have already came across with a few cases in the Net.

fernando · 10th August 2007, 04:06 PM

Although not entirely an idiomatic expression,the term sympathetic used in this context might sound unfamiliar to those who are used to see it envolved with clinic language

.
We have a second and surely more popular use for this term in Portuguese ( and other Latin languages ).
What i mean about Jim postings is that they are pleasant and fair ...as well as peacemaking

.
fernando

Jim McDougall · 11th August 2007, 05:29 AM

Fernando,
Thank you so much indeed for the very kind words!!

and again for the information that has developed on this thread on a fascinating weapon.
All the best,
Jim

10th August 2007, 02:13 AM	#1
Berkley Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Austin, Texas USA Posts: 257	Jim, Here is a little pistol which illustrates several points that Fernando has raised. This is a screw-barrel or turn-off barrel pistol opened to show the position of the ball. As Fernando says, this forms a tight seal in the bore by using an oversized lead ball of greater than bore diameter, which eliminates the “windage” necessary to push a ball down the barrel from the muzzle with a ramrod, and makes a relatively high-powered small pistol. This particular pistol is of later manufacture, common design, and decidedly inferior workmanship to Fernando's elegant example. Although marked “London”, it in fact has Birmingham proof marks. It is also marked H Nock, although that famous London maker would not have turned out anything of this rough quality. (In any event, he died before the Birmingham proof house was established). In short, it’s an English pistol that was intentionally mismarked when made to deceive the original buyer with a spurious claim of greater quality than it possessed, or as Fernando says, "increase the image of the product". Berkley Attached Images

10th August 2007, 03:17 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Excelent,Berkley. The clearest way to show it. Eventualy the examples i have within this area, would not be good for such demonstration. One has a similar shape and decoration, although of poorer quality, without any maker or proof marks, but with a fix barrel. The other is a Liege marked one, with a screwing facility that is stuck and, despite all reasonal efforts, i could never unscrew it. I think this happens often with this system or, at least, i have already came across with a few cases in the Net. Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 10th August 2007 at 03:32 PM.

10th August 2007, 04:06 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	TRADUTORE TRADITORE Although not entirely an idiomatic expression,the term sympathetic used in this context might sound unfamiliar to those who are used to see it envolved with clinic language . We have a second and surely more popular use for this term in Portuguese ( and other Latin languages ). What i mean about Jim postings is that they are pleasant and fair ...as well as peacemaking . fernando Last edited by fernando; 11th August 2007 at 12:35 AM.

10th August 2007, 03:02 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,599	Outstanding Berkley!! Thank you so much for the excellent presentation! I know that I very much enjoy learning more on early firearms, a topic I admittedly have always sidestepped in studying weapons. Nicely done and much appreciated. All best regards, Jim

11th August 2007, 05:29 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,599	Fernando, Thank you so much indeed for the very kind words!! and again for the information that has developed on this thread on a fascinating weapon. All the best, Jim