Ivory hilt dagger with "Tears" and a "Smiley?"

David · 7th August 2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

That article contains some terms I am unfamiliar with: "Yesodic entities", "the Darks", "Briahtic structures".

Andrew, these are Qabalistic terms, though i don't quite grasp how or why he is using these in this article as i have merely skimmed it for the terms. Briah refers to one of the 4 Qabalistic worlds, the world of creation. Yesod is one of the 10 (or 11

) spheres on the Tree of Life, the 9th sphere, one level up from our material world of Malkuth.

Mare Rosu · 7th August 2007, 10:08 PM

Rand, the information on the different types of Ivory is much appreciated.

Jens would you please tell me what I am looking at/for, in your last picture? Which one is which?

David much needed information, now I am a little (very little) less confused.

Folks I am going to take the dagger to an handle material expert tomorrow.
I will let you know what I find out from them. These folks sell all types of handle material to the knife trade including ivory. There business is located only a few miles away. Stay tuned!
Gene

rand · 7th August 2007, 10:17 PM

Hey Gene,

I lean towards thinking the grip scales are Indian elephant ivory because they are staying white...

rand

PS...nice daggers posted there Jens

spiral · 8th August 2007, 12:15 AM

Rand, i have read much knowledge & wisdom in your posts but I must say the colour of ivory is based on enviroment & food during the elephants life, Africa is a big place, with lots of variations, large grain, small grain, many colours & tones from each area, jungle or dry region, food a plenty or famine. The same is true on a lesser scale in India & Burma

The regional variation are more accurate than the continental as used to be shown by the prices realised for the old Liverpool & Antwerp ivory auctions.

But far beyond that each tusk was from a living breathing animal with its own life history that far outways the usual antique dealers generalitys one sees trotted out when it comes to fineness of grain, colour & more importantly texture & resiliance , which of course is what the carvers were looking for.

Spiral

rand · 8th August 2007, 02:30 AM

Hey Spiral,

I yield to a more informed opinion and would like to hear more about the color of ivory as it relates directly as part of a puzzle wher you add the sum of all the parts to determine what the whole is. My knowledge of ivory is more general from a collecting and study perspective of arms n' armor and not from a study of ivory. This is an area I would certainly like to know more. Maybe a seperate posting as not to deviate from the course of this thread.

The use ivory is seen particularly from the late 16th century on in Islamic countries. Also on a similar topic would be bone, different bones were also used and they had a couple hundred grades of it from what I have read.

Stag horn was more popular in the 16th century and seems to be one the the earlier forms material used for grip scales.

Am sure trade routes were a cause and effect and as Empires changed habds so did the trade routes and the tax base gleened from that.

Thanks again Spiral,

rand

7th August 2007, 10:17 PM	#3
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	grip scales ivory Hey Gene, I lean towards thinking the grip scales are Indian elephant ivory because they are staying white... rand PS...nice daggers posted there Jens

8th August 2007, 02:30 AM	#5
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Bowing to a more informed opinion Hey Spiral, I yield to a more informed opinion and would like to hear more about the color of ivory as it relates directly as part of a puzzle wher you add the sum of all the parts to determine what the whole is. My knowledge of ivory is more general from a collecting and study perspective of arms n' armor and not from a study of ivory. This is an area I would certainly like to know more. Maybe a seperate posting as not to deviate from the course of this thread. The use ivory is seen particularly from the late 16th century on in Islamic countries. Also on a similar topic would be bone, different bones were also used and they had a couple hundred grades of it from what I have read. Stag horn was more popular in the 16th century and seems to be one the the earlier forms material used for grip scales. Am sure trade routes were a cause and effect and as Empires changed habds so did the trade routes and the tax base gleened from that. Thanks again Spiral, rand

7th August 2007, 10:08 PM	#2
Mare Rosu Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear? Posts: 121	Rand, the information on the different types of Ivory is much appreciated. Jens would you please tell me what I am looking at/for, in your last picture? Which one is which? David much needed information, now I am a little (very little) less confused. Folks I am going to take the dagger to an handle material expert tomorrow. I will let you know what I find out from them. These folks sell all types of handle material to the knife trade including ivory. There business is located only a few miles away. Stay tuned! Gene

8th August 2007, 12:15 AM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Rand, i have read much knowledge & wisdom in your posts but I must say the colour of ivory is based on enviroment & food during the elephants life, Africa is a big place, with lots of variations, large grain, small grain, many colours & tones from each area, jungle or dry region, food a plenty or famine. The same is true on a lesser scale in India & Burma The regional variation are more accurate than the continental as used to be shown by the prices realised for the old Liverpool & Antwerp ivory auctions. But far beyond that each tusk was from a living breathing animal with its own life history that far outways the usual antique dealers generalitys one sees trotted out when it comes to fineness of grain, colour & more importantly texture & resiliance , which of course is what the carvers were looking for. Spiral