Datu Ivory Kris

BSMStar · 6th August 2007, 06:36 PM

It looks like Hoser_Mckracken failed to make payment...

Is someone out there just to drive up prices on purpose?

Rick · 6th August 2007, 07:24 PM

On Ebay ?!?!?!!

I'm shocked ..

Ian · 6th August 2007, 08:02 PM

I hope this dealer did not get hosed. Certainly looks as though he may have been. I think someone, somewhere is always looking to drive up prices on eBay.

Ian

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSMStar

It looks like Hoser_Mckracken failed to make payment...

Is someone out there just to drive up prices on purpose?

VANDOO · 6th August 2007, 08:52 PM

BELEAVE IT OR NOT THERE ARE THOSE OUT THERE WHO DON'T GIVE A HOOT ABOUT THE SWORDS SPEARS OR ANYTHING ELSE THEY ARE JUST IN IT FOR THE MONEY. THEY LEARN AS MUCH AS THEY CAN THE BETTER TO SELL AND RUNNING UP THE PRICES TO UNHEARD OF HIGHTS WOULD ONLY BE CONSIDERED AS GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE.
MONEY IS NECESSARY TO HAVE BUT IT IS ONLY PAPER! NO WHERE AS COOL AS EDGED WEAPONS

I REFER TO THOSE WHO ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN WEAPONS TO MAKE A LOT OF MONEY, DON'T EVEN LIKE THEM AND DON'T COLLECT AS HAVING NO SOUL.

I WOULD SEE A GOOD OLD DAYAK MANDAU TO ADD TO MY COLLECTION, THEY WOULD ONLY SEE THE MONEY THEY WILL MAKE WHEN THEY SELL IT.THEIR COLLECTION IS TO SEE HOW BIG A FIGURE THEY CAN ACHIEVE IN THEIR BANK ACCOUNT BEFORE THEY DIE, FOR AS LITTLE AN INVESTMENT AS POSSIBLE A NOBLE GOAL AND SMART STRADGEY NO DOUBT. BUT I DID NOT START COLLECTING FOR THAT REASON BUT JUST TO LEARN ABOUT AND HAVE SOME INTERESTING THINGS TO COLLECT AND ENJOY, IF I HAPPEN TO MAKE SOME MONEY WHEN I SELL SO MUCH THE BETTER BUT THAT IS NOT THE DRIVING FORCE BEHIND MY COLLECTING.
THIS IS NOT A PUT DOWN IT IS JUST MY POINT OF VIEW

THEY JUST HAVE A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW. OFTEN THEY ARE DIRVEN A LOT HARDER THAN I AND AQUIRE A LOT MORE KNOWLEGE SO ARE A VALUABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION IF THEY CHOOSE TO SHARE THEIR KNOWLEGE. I KNOW SOME WHO WILL SHARE THEIR KNOWLEGE AND SOME WHO CONSIDER IT A POWER AND WILL TAKE IT TO THEIR GRAVE RATHER THAN SHARE IT WITH THOSE WHO DID NOT DO THE RESEARCH OR TRACK DOWN THE INFORMATION THEMSELVES. JUST ANOTHER POINT OF VIEW BUT OFTEN AN UNFORTUNATE ONE.

Battara · 6th August 2007, 09:19 PM

I would normally (and abnormally

) be interested in this piece but I knew that it would go for ridiculous price. What turned me off was the reconditioned nose. I might have paid a much lower price for a reconditioned nose.......but who knows? (every pun intended

)

rand · 6th August 2007, 09:37 PM

I have sympathy for both the Seller and the under bidders on this item. The Seller lost a sale and his time. The Bidders now have their estimates of value known and possibly tied up access on funds to bid on a different item.

No winners here,

rand

TVV · 6th August 2007, 10:08 PM

Just a few random thoughts regarding this auction. I am really sorry for the seller, as he is stuck with eBay's fee, and as far as I recall it is a percentage of the final price. I guess a good precaution by all sellers would be to explicitly warn in the listing that they would accept no bids from 0 feedback users, no exceptions. However, I do not see what a seller can do about snipers (to which I also belong) other than a second-chance offer after the end of the auction. For an item on eBay to close high, at least two high bidders are needed to drive the price up, one cannot do it by himself/herself. I wish there was a rule that made second chance offers binding on the bidder, but even this would not help make sure that noone could drive prices up, for whatever purpose. It seems however that someone is doing exactly this - registering IDs just to drive a sale really high and ruin it for the seller and the rest of the bidders, in ther meantime driving prices for colelctibles as high as possible, and this phenomenon seems to have started after eBay decided to hide bidders' IDs.
Teodor

Bill M · 6th August 2007, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Just a few random thoughts regarding this auction. I am really sorry for the seller, as he is stuck with eBay's fee, and as far as I recall it is a percentage of the final price. I guess a good precaution by all sellers would be to explicitly warn in the listing that they would accept no bids from 0 feedback users, no exceptions. However, I do not see what a seller can do about snipers (to which I also belong) other than a second-chance offer after the end of the auction. Teodor

I still think this is a twist core. I'd clean and stain it and re-market it. A twist core with ivory is a good thing and has some value, regardless of my nit picking in this thread.

I very much feel bad for the seller. I have bought some very good African pieces from him and been pleased with both the quality and the service. Fast shipping and well-packaged.

He should not get stuck with high eBay fees, but will either have to file an NPB (Non Performing Bidder) strike against the bidder, which I would do, but that might provoke a negative FB from a newbie bidder.

Seller and buyer can also agree not to complete the sale. Either way there would be no eBay fee.

BSMStar · 7th August 2007, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

I hope this dealer did not get hosed. Certainly looks as though he may have been. I think someone, somewhere is always looking to drive up prices on eBay.

Ian

You mean Hosered.

This is just crazy... to have a not overly spectacular layered blade with flaws, rehilted (at least sometime in its history) with ivory… stand back and watch the eBay insanity play out. Not worth the closing price, even as an investment... and to be clear, I am not blaming the seller on this. I'm talking about the shark like insatiable feeding frenzy, even when a minnow is placed in the water.

This is just hurting all of us who are trying to collect for the culture, heritage and history.

spiral · 8th August 2007, 12:33 AM

The buyers got suitable & deserved feedback,

but presumably whoever wanted there "rival" piece to sell high, has done well? The second highest bidder & others will have gone elswhere , I expect?

Sadley Arms dealers have not been famous for there morality at any time in history.

{present company & all forum members excepted of course!

}

Spiral

Battara · 8th August 2007, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSMStar

You mean Hosered.

This is just crazy... to have a not overly spectacular layered blade with flaws, rehilted (at least sometime in its history) with ivory… stand back and watch the eBay insanity play out. Not worth the closing price, even as an investment... and to be clear, I am not blaming the seller on this. I'm talking about the shark like insatiable feeding frenzy, even when a minnow is placed in the water.

This is just hurting all of us who are trying to collect for the culture, heritage and history.

Thank you BSMStar - on the nose. Sickenly insane. Rising prices is one thing, but insanity only hurts when the frenzy ends and the prices plummet to "corrected" market value, making the inflated values hurt everyone.

Tim Simmons · 8th August 2007, 07:32 PM

BSMstar, you are too late door knobs are really expensive. I was Lucky and got this Victorian set cheaply, I sprayed them gold. Go to London and you would pay the earth. As to collecting weapons, there is so much out there- use your loaf, move on and buy something else, the prices will come down. The prices are high because you pay it.

BSMStar · 9th August 2007, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

BSMstar, you are too late door knobs are really expensive. I was Lucky and got this Victorian set cheaply, I sprayed them gold. Go to London and you would pay the earth. As to collecting weapons, there is so much out there- use your loaf, move on and buy something else, the prices will come down. The prices are high because you pay it.

Hi Tim!

Awesome door knob! You just don't see those around any more.

I normally agree with you... that the prices are high because people are willing to pay it.

But in this case, and to bring the point home, I purchased an Ivory Moro Kris with a twisted core last year for just under $500 (similar to the one in this auction without the flaws). This year this one is passing $2600?? That is over a 500% change in one year.

Look at the bidding... the "sane" bidding died out in the $600 range (the price the majority of people were willing to pay).
The desperate bidding died out in the $1200 range (that was crazy).
Three drove it to the loony price range of $2200...
And the two bidders drove the price pass the insane $2600 range.

One can not reason (based on the top two bids) this is what the "average collector" truly believes this Kris is worth... that $2600 is the price "people" are "willing" to pay. Then to back out of the deal (if I were the seller, I would want to reach through my computer, grab Hoser by the neck and shake some bloody sense in to him)! It is pure insanity and no good can come of it!

Rick · 9th August 2007, 01:52 AM

I guess I must repeat; this auction was 'cybertaged' for the sole purpose of creating price confusion in this particular collecting niche .

The ultimate hope (as mentioned before) was to somehow re-adjust prices lower for Moro pieces.

I just don't participate on eBay any more; IMO it has been the bane of the serious collector for some time now.

Andrew · 8th August 2007, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSMStar

This is just crazy... to have a not overly spectacular layered blade with flaws, rehilted (at least sometime in its history) with ivory… stand back and watch the eBay insanity play out. Not worth the closing price, even as an investment... and to be clear, I am not blaming the seller on this. I'm talking about the shark like insatiable feeding frenzy, even when a minnow is placed in the water.

This is just hurting all of us who are trying to collect for the culture, heritage and history.

I agree completely. Normally, I'm a big advocate for the free market, and more than willing to allow that market to set prices where appropriate. However, there can come a point where manipulation (intentional or otherwise) affects the intrinsic, non-monetary value of an item/group of items. Once that happens, collecting for the joy of learning and, yes, preservation of culture and heritage, take a back seat to lucre. I think that is a real shame.

Unfortunately, I was probably a force in driving the prices up on dha in recent years.

I recall a point, perhaps 2 years ago, when I was considering a bid that was significantly higher than I would ever pay because I was caught up in my desire to acquire. I checked myself, bailed out of that auction, and have since changed my buying/bidding habits.

Don't get me wrong, I'll still bid aggressively on stuff I really want. I suspect when certain bidders see me place a rare bid these days, they either drop out or prepare to do battle.

Bill · 9th August 2007, 12:02 AM

For those of us in the USA, we have a falling $, which makes collecting more expensive in a world market. Not to say, that is the reason but it does play a part.

Bill M · 9th August 2007, 12:06 AM

Corkscrews. Collect corkscrews. Saw a corkscrew collection lately. He even had a corkscrew collectors book.

6th August 2007, 06:36 PM	#1
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Tough marketplace without this! It looks like Hoser_Mckracken failed to make payment... Is someone out there just to drive up prices on purpose?

6th August 2007, 07:24 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Cybertage ??? On Ebay ?!?!?!! I'm shocked ..

6th August 2007, 08:52 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	BELEAVE IT OR NOT THERE ARE THOSE OUT THERE WHO DON'T GIVE A HOOT ABOUT THE SWORDS SPEARS OR ANYTHING ELSE THEY ARE JUST IN IT FOR THE MONEY. THEY LEARN AS MUCH AS THEY CAN THE BETTER TO SELL AND RUNNING UP THE PRICES TO UNHEARD OF HIGHTS WOULD ONLY BE CONSIDERED AS GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE. MONEY IS NECESSARY TO HAVE BUT IT IS ONLY PAPER! NO WHERE AS COOL AS EDGED WEAPONS I REFER TO THOSE WHO ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN WEAPONS TO MAKE A LOT OF MONEY, DON'T EVEN LIKE THEM AND DON'T COLLECT AS HAVING NO SOUL. I WOULD SEE A GOOD OLD DAYAK MANDAU TO ADD TO MY COLLECTION, THEY WOULD ONLY SEE THE MONEY THEY WILL MAKE WHEN THEY SELL IT.THEIR COLLECTION IS TO SEE HOW BIG A FIGURE THEY CAN ACHIEVE IN THEIR BANK ACCOUNT BEFORE THEY DIE, FOR AS LITTLE AN INVESTMENT AS POSSIBLE A NOBLE GOAL AND SMART STRADGEY NO DOUBT. BUT I DID NOT START COLLECTING FOR THAT REASON BUT JUST TO LEARN ABOUT AND HAVE SOME INTERESTING THINGS TO COLLECT AND ENJOY, IF I HAPPEN TO MAKE SOME MONEY WHEN I SELL SO MUCH THE BETTER BUT THAT IS NOT THE DRIVING FORCE BEHIND MY COLLECTING. THIS IS NOT A PUT DOWN IT IS JUST MY POINT OF VIEW THEY JUST HAVE A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW. OFTEN THEY ARE DIRVEN A LOT HARDER THAN I AND AQUIRE A LOT MORE KNOWLEGE SO ARE A VALUABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION IF THEY CHOOSE TO SHARE THEIR KNOWLEGE. I KNOW SOME WHO WILL SHARE THEIR KNOWLEGE AND SOME WHO CONSIDER IT A POWER AND WILL TAKE IT TO THEIR GRAVE RATHER THAN SHARE IT WITH THOSE WHO DID NOT DO THE RESEARCH OR TRACK DOWN THE INFORMATION THEMSELVES. JUST ANOTHER POINT OF VIEW BUT OFTEN AN UNFORTUNATE ONE. Last edited by VANDOO; 6th August 2007 at 09:44 PM.

6th August 2007, 09:37 PM	#6
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Sympathy I have sympathy for both the Seller and the under bidders on this item. The Seller lost a sale and his time. The Bidders now have their estimates of value known and possibly tied up access on funds to bid on a different item. No winners here, rand

8th August 2007, 07:32 PM	#12
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,854	BSMstar, you are too late door knobs are really expensive. I was Lucky and got this Victorian set cheaply, I sprayed them gold. Go to London and you would pay the earth. As to collecting weapons, there is so much out there- use your loaf, move on and buy something else, the prices will come down. The prices are high because you pay it. Attached Images

6th August 2007, 09:19 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I would normally (and abnormally ) be interested in this piece but I knew that it would go for ridiculous price. What turned me off was the reconditioned nose. I might have paid a much lower price for a reconditioned nose.......but who knows? (every pun intended )

6th August 2007, 10:08 PM	#7
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,664	Just a few random thoughts regarding this auction. I am really sorry for the seller, as he is stuck with eBay's fee, and as far as I recall it is a percentage of the final price. I guess a good precaution by all sellers would be to explicitly warn in the listing that they would accept no bids from 0 feedback users, no exceptions. However, I do not see what a seller can do about snipers (to which I also belong) other than a second-chance offer after the end of the auction. For an item on eBay to close high, at least two high bidders are needed to drive the price up, one cannot do it by himself/herself. I wish there was a rule that made second chance offers binding on the bidder, but even this would not help make sure that noone could drive prices up, for whatever purpose. It seems however that someone is doing exactly this - registering IDs just to drive a sale really high and ruin it for the seller and the rest of the bidders, in ther meantime driving prices for colelctibles as high as possible, and this phenomenon seems to have started after eBay decided to hide bidders' IDs. Teodor

8th August 2007, 12:33 AM	#10
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	The buyers got suitable & deserved feedback, but presumably whoever wanted there "rival" piece to sell high, has done well? The second highest bidder & others will have gone elswhere , I expect? Sadley Arms dealers have not been famous for there morality at any time in history. {present company & all forum members excepted of course! } Spiral

9th August 2007, 01:52 AM	#14
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	I guess I must repeat; this auction was 'cybertaged' for the sole purpose of creating price confusion in this particular collecting niche . The ultimate hope (as mentioned before) was to somehow re-adjust prices lower for Moro pieces. I just don't participate on eBay any more; IMO it has been the bane of the serious collector for some time now.

9th August 2007, 12:02 AM	#16
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	For those of us in the USA, we have a falling $, which makes collecting more expensive in a world market. Not to say, that is the reason but it does play a part.

9th August 2007, 12:06 AM	#17
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Corkscrews. Collect corkscrews. Saw a corkscrew collection lately. He even had a corkscrew collectors book.