Tombak for comment

Adni Aljunied · 7th December 2004, 04:08 PM

Both tombaks have similar features, but closer look at the "metok" or ferrule shows that the one wolviex has is seperated whereas Rick's has it made one with the blade, or "seiras".
More commonly seen from Sumatra or Malaysian regions are the seiras tombaks, while the other type are more Javanese inclined, although there are exceptions. The not very contrasting pamor on Rick's tombak also has less Javanese features, and I'm sure with a good washing, wolviex's tombak will show good contrast.
Do retain the sheath please, and give it some good old English oils or other wood oils to "relive" it back again, and maybe a longer shaft for the handle. On that note, I would consider both pieces more as a "lembing", a throwing spear, rather than a "tombak" (lance) from it's more slimmmer and rather "aerodynamic" features. But again, there are a few views on the diffrences between a tombak and a lembing, as it is with a lance and a spear.

Rick · 7th December 2004, 04:12 PM

Adni , I was suprised at how smooth the surface of my piece is .
Can you make any comment on that ?
It's good to see you here .

Adni Aljunied · 7th December 2004, 04:45 PM

It mutually good to be here too Rick.

The smoothness on the surface of your tombak may be seen as a common Balinese styled finnish, but I don't think the tombak is of Balinese in origin. Without handling the piece it's hard to tell, but the metals used looks more "compact" and "stronger" if I may say. Arranged in the "miring" technique with the pamor "adeg", stronger metals, and of course made with an experienced empu, the fusion of the layers are more "tighter" and "compact" which when finally finished traditionally with limestone, can result in a more smoother surface. Not usually done in Malaysian blades, but not uncommon on Sumatran pieces.
Also note of the temper mark from the darker shades on the top half of the blade (especially the edges) where it is submerge during temper quenching. Another feature pointing it more towards a Sumatran origin.
The presence of a wax coating for preservation may also make the surface smooth, but removing the wax layer will expose the courser surfaces.

Henk · 9th December 2004, 08:06 PM

Wolviex,

I understand the museum problem and that is something common in every museum. Adni was the one I was thinking of for the washing.

As promissed I scanned some drawings how this tombak or lembing like Adni says ,and he's right we should talk about lembing, was dressed.

wolviex · 9th December 2004, 09:53 PM

Henk, it's great, I suffer because of lack of terminology. It will be helpful.
Best regards

7th December 2004, 04:12 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Adni Adni , I was suprised at how smooth the surface of my piece is . Can you make any comment on that ? It's good to see you here .

9th December 2004, 09:53 PM	#5
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Thank you thank you Henk, it's great, I suffer because of lack of terminology. It will be helpful. Best regards

7th December 2004, 04:08 PM	#1
Adni Aljunied Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: singapore Posts: 13	Both tombaks have similar features, but closer look at the "metok" or ferrule shows that the one wolviex has is seperated whereas Rick's has it made one with the blade, or "seiras". More commonly seen from Sumatra or Malaysian regions are the seiras tombaks, while the other type are more Javanese inclined, although there are exceptions. The not very contrasting pamor on Rick's tombak also has less Javanese features, and I'm sure with a good washing, wolviex's tombak will show good contrast. Do retain the sheath please, and give it some good old English oils or other wood oils to "relive" it back again, and maybe a longer shaft for the handle. On that note, I would consider both pieces more as a "lembing", a throwing spear, rather than a "tombak" (lance) from it's more slimmmer and rather "aerodynamic" features. But again, there are a few views on the diffrences between a tombak and a lembing, as it is with a lance and a spear.

7th December 2004, 04:45 PM	#3
Adni Aljunied Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: singapore Posts: 13	It mutually good to be here too Rick. The smoothness on the surface of your tombak may be seen as a common Balinese styled finnish, but I don't think the tombak is of Balinese in origin. Without handling the piece it's hard to tell, but the metals used looks more "compact" and "stronger" if I may say. Arranged in the "miring" technique with the pamor "adeg", stronger metals, and of course made with an experienced empu, the fusion of the layers are more "tighter" and "compact" which when finally finished traditionally with limestone, can result in a more smoother surface. Not usually done in Malaysian blades, but not uncommon on Sumatran pieces. Also note of the temper mark from the darker shades on the top half of the blade (especially the edges) where it is submerge during temper quenching. Another feature pointing it more towards a Sumatran origin. The presence of a wax coating for preservation may also make the surface smooth, but removing the wax layer will expose the courser surfaces.

9th December 2004, 08:06 PM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Wolviex, I understand the museum problem and that is something common in every museum. Adni was the one I was thinking of for the washing. As promissed I scanned some drawings how this tombak or lembing like Adni says ,and he's right we should talk about lembing, was dressed.