MORO SILVER HILTED

[Rick]

Agree with Kai; I think I might see a twist core hiding in there ..

[Bill]

I agree with Kai & Rick that it would be worth it to re-polish & etch again. I have a wavey kris that is somewhat simular. The inner core much lighter, the outside almost being black (I've never etched it). In almost the same place as in Flavio's kriss, mine also has the same characteristics except it's a very distinct line that's the same on both sides. I've always assumed that it is a quench line but I'm far from certain. My sword has held a very sharp edge. Usually I have noticed, while etching, old rust area's will come out dark/black; but definitely, some steels will etch out almost black while others in the same blade stay light.

[kai]

Hello Bill,

I have a wavey kris that is somewhat simular. The inner core much lighter, the outside almost being black (I've never etched it). In almost the same place as in Flavio's kriss, mine also has the same characteristics except it's a very distinct line that's the same on both sides. I've always assumed that it is a quench line but I'm far from certain.

No, not a quench line: Your's is a perfect example of the usual sandwich construction with the outer steel with less carbon (but more tensile strength) partly covering the central plate of harder high carbon steel. Both steels can show laminations although this is usually only obvious within the low carbon steel (both for twist core as well as more laminar/random pattern welded blades).

Regards,
Kai

[Bill]

Kai, Sorry but the picture doesn't show my point well. I'm not set up for pics right now & added this one as a after-thought to my post (I had it on disk). There is a faint line on the pic (very strong on visual expection) about 5 cm from the hilt. The outer darkness stays the same on both sides of the line but the inner core has noticable differences in the lamination. That is the line, that may be a quench line. I assume the smith started by making a straight sword, adding the waves after. Would he use constant quenching to keep previous "waves" from being distorted as he preceded? Kris generally keep a very sharp edge, this one is even sharper then the usual, another reason it may have a unusual quench "marking"?

[josh stout]

I have seen a lighter area at the forte of a blade on a Chinese dao that Philip Tom attributed to annealing. The idea was to reheat the base of the blade and let it cool slowly to increase durability at the expense of hardness in an area where hardness is not as important. This is not a comment on the underlying pattern of the steel, but the lighter area at the base of the blade looks almost exactly like what I saw on the dao.
Josh

[Flavio]

Thank you guys !! Yeah, I will try to re-polished an etched again the blade hoping and praying that is a twisted core blade!!!! Any suggestion on the age? Is another end of 19th - early 20th century kris? (nothing wrong with kris of this age, of course )

[Flavio]

Well, since I will not have the time in the next few days to re-polish and re etch the blade I have a more close look at the blade: in on side there are three (maybe four) clear rows that comes from the gangya area untill the point in the middle portion of the blade (the center). On the other side these rows are clear but I can see also some other thinner lines (the others in the center of the blade are 0.6 mm circa of width). In the pictures you can see a photo taken before of the etching: there are some strange, how can I say, "cracks" on the blade....

[kai]

Hello Flavio,

I will try to re-polished an etched again the blade hoping and praying that is a twisted core blade!!!!

Take your time - I'm pretty sure it is a twist core...

Any suggestion on the age? Is another end of 19th - early 20th century kris?

I'd guess at late 19th century, possibly picked up during the Spanish-American war...

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Josh,

I have seen a lighter area at the forte of a blade on a Chinese dao that Philip Tom attributed to annealing. The idea was to reheat the base of the blade and let it cool slowly to increase durability at the expense of hardness in an area where hardness is not as important.

Thanks for the nice observation! Maybe this would be preferable to do before attaching the gangya; it seems safe to assume that the latter was also annealed for ease of working and toughness.

The only other explanation which comes to my mind would be quenching almost the whole blade in some fluid...

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Bill,

There is a faint line on the pic (very strong on visual expection) about 5 cm from the hilt. The outer darkness stays the same on both sides of the line but the inner core has noticable differences in the lamination. That is the line, that may be a quench line.

Sorry, didn't saw that!

Actually, I'm still having a hard time to locate that line - I'd appreciate a close-up whenever you find some time to take pics.

Regards,
Kai

[Flavio]

Hi all!! Well I was so curoius that I can't wait: I have tried but don't seems to be twisted core..... I'm so sorry, I was hoping.... Anyway I haven't taken pictures because it wasn't worth. I have polished and etched twice one side of the blade, one time with cloruric ferric and than with lemon, but nothing. Anyway I will try again on the whole blade with vinegar.... The last chance

[kai]

Hello Flavio,

Anyway I haven't taken pictures because it wasn't worth. I have polished and etched twice one side of the blade, one time with cloruric ferric and than with lemon, but nothing. Anyway I will try again on the whole blade with vinegar....

Hmm, weird - don't give up unless you get clear evidence for some other pattern!

Please do take close-ups of the blade at each step! Even it may not look pretty there may be more hints on this blade. If these suggest twist core and the blade is just difficult to stain, this may be worth handing over to Philip Tom.

Regards,
Kai