MORO SILVER HILTED

kai · 23rd July 2007, 11:06 PM

Hello Flavio,

That one wasn't cheap.

Quote:

I have etched the blade but there is something strange: the area near the gangya shows a clear lamination, but the rest of the blade is black!!! Anyway, even if the pictures are quite bad, you can see a nice lamination. Maybe this is due to many and many deep polishings of the blade that have removed the "superficial" steel, and so the original lamination that is something like you see near the ganya????

I suspect you may have a real winner here... Could you please email larger close-ups of the blade?

The original sandwich construction is certainly still intact: I do see blurry laminations towards the tip of the blade. I think you're just in for some more rounds of polishing and etching to get a very pleasing result - go for it!

Regards,
Kai

Rick · 23rd July 2007, 11:57 PM

Agree with Kai; I think I might see a twist core hiding in there ..

Bill · 24th July 2007, 01:41 AM

I agree with Kai & Rick that it would be worth it to re-polish & etch again. I have a wavey kris that is somewhat simular. The inner core much lighter, the outside almost being black (I've never etched it). In almost the same place as in Flavio's kriss, mine also has the same characteristics except it's a very distinct line that's the same on both sides. I've always assumed that it is a quench line but I'm far from certain. My sword has held a very sharp edge. Usually I have noticed, while etching, old rust area's will come out dark/black; but definitely, some steels will etch out almost black while others in the same blade stay light.

kai · 24th July 2007, 07:10 AM

Hello Bill,

Quote:

I have a wavey kris that is somewhat simular. The inner core much lighter, the outside almost being black (I've never etched it). In almost the same place as in Flavio's kriss, mine also has the same characteristics except it's a very distinct line that's the same on both sides. I've always assumed that it is a quench line but I'm far from certain.

No, not a quench line: Your's is a perfect example of the usual sandwich construction with the outer steel with less carbon (but more tensile strength) partly covering the central plate of harder high carbon steel. Both steels can show laminations although this is usually only obvious within the low carbon steel (both for twist core as well as more laminar/random pattern welded blades).

Regards,
Kai

Bill · 24th July 2007, 01:24 PM

Kai, Sorry but the picture doesn't show my point well. I'm not set up for pics right now & added this one as a after-thought to my post (I had it on disk). There is a faint line on the pic (very strong on visual expection) about 5 cm from the hilt. The outer darkness stays the same on both sides of the line but the inner core has noticable differences in the lamination. That is the line, that may be a quench line. I assume the smith started by making a straight sword, adding the waves after. Would he use constant quenching to keep previous "waves" from being distorted as he preceded? Kris generally keep a very sharp edge, this one is even sharper then the usual, another reason it may have a unusual quench "marking"?

josh stout · 24th July 2007, 03:51 PM

I have seen a lighter area at the forte of a blade on a Chinese dao that Philip Tom attributed to annealing. The idea was to reheat the base of the blade and let it cool slowly to increase durability at the expense of hardness in an area where hardness is not as important. This is not a comment on the underlying pattern of the steel, but the lighter area at the base of the blade looks almost exactly like what I saw on the dao.
Josh

Flavio · 24th July 2007, 05:28 PM

Thank you guys

!! Yeah, I will try to re-polished an etched again the blade hoping and praying that is a twisted core blade!!!! Any suggestion on the age? Is another end of 19th - early 20th century kris? (nothing wrong with kris of this age, of course

)

kai · 24th July 2007, 08:26 PM

Hello Josh,

Quote:

I have seen a lighter area at the forte of a blade on a Chinese dao that Philip Tom attributed to annealing. The idea was to reheat the base of the blade and let it cool slowly to increase durability at the expense of hardness in an area where hardness is not as important.

Thanks for the nice observation! Maybe this would be preferable to do before attaching the gangya; it seems safe to assume that the latter was also annealed for ease of working and toughness.

The only other explanation which comes to my mind would be quenching almost the whole blade in some fluid...

Regards,
Kai

kai · 24th July 2007, 08:31 PM

Hello Bill,

Quote:

There is a faint line on the pic (very strong on visual expection) about 5 cm from the hilt. The outer darkness stays the same on both sides of the line but the inner core has noticable differences in the lamination. That is the line, that may be a quench line.

Sorry, didn't saw that!

Actually, I'm still having a hard time to locate that line - I'd appreciate a close-up whenever you find some time to take pics.

Regards,
Kai

Flavio · 25th July 2007, 10:54 PM

Hi all!! Well I was so curoius that I can't wait: I have tried but don't seems to be twisted core..... I'm so sorry, I was hoping.... Anyway I haven't taken pictures because it wasn't worth. I have polished and etched twice one side of the blade, one time with cloruric ferric and than with lemon, but nothing. Anyway I will try again on the whole blade with vinegar.... The last chance

24th July 2007, 01:41 AM	#3
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	I agree with Kai & Rick that it would be worth it to re-polish & etch again. I have a wavey kris that is somewhat simular. The inner core much lighter, the outside almost being black (I've never etched it). In almost the same place as in Flavio's kriss, mine also has the same characteristics except it's a very distinct line that's the same on both sides. I've always assumed that it is a quench line but I'm far from certain. My sword has held a very sharp edge. Usually I have noticed, while etching, old rust area's will come out dark/black; but definitely, some steels will etch out almost black while others in the same blade stay light. Attached Images Last edited by Bill; 24th July 2007 at 02:07 AM.

23rd July 2007, 11:57 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Agree with Kai; I think I might see a twist core hiding in there ..

24th July 2007, 01:24 PM	#5
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Kai, Sorry but the picture doesn't show my point well. I'm not set up for pics right now & added this one as a after-thought to my post (I had it on disk). There is a faint line on the pic (very strong on visual expection) about 5 cm from the hilt. The outer darkness stays the same on both sides of the line but the inner core has noticable differences in the lamination. That is the line, that may be a quench line. I assume the smith started by making a straight sword, adding the waves after. Would he use constant quenching to keep previous "waves" from being distorted as he preceded? Kris generally keep a very sharp edge, this one is even sharper then the usual, another reason it may have a unusual quench "marking"?

24th July 2007, 03:51 PM	#6
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	I have seen a lighter area at the forte of a blade on a Chinese dao that Philip Tom attributed to annealing. The idea was to reheat the base of the blade and let it cool slowly to increase durability at the expense of hardness in an area where hardness is not as important. This is not a comment on the underlying pattern of the steel, but the lighter area at the base of the blade looks almost exactly like what I saw on the dao. Josh

24th July 2007, 05:28 PM	#7
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Thank you guys !! Yeah, I will try to re-polished an etched again the blade hoping and praying that is a twisted core blade!!!! Any suggestion on the age? Is another end of 19th - early 20th century kris? (nothing wrong with kris of this age, of course )

25th July 2007, 10:54 PM	#10
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi all!! Well I was so curoius that I can't wait: I have tried but don't seems to be twisted core..... I'm so sorry, I was hoping.... Anyway I haven't taken pictures because it wasn't worth. I have polished and etched twice one side of the blade, one time with cloruric ferric and than with lemon, but nothing. Anyway I will try again on the whole blade with vinegar.... The last chance