keris and spirit

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

... Methink, Persians (Aryans) were known to be among the first who used damascene pattern forging of weapons. They also used wavy swords - but to accommodate the local environment, the wavy damascened swords had to go thru evolution, hence the keris we see today. Of course, this theory is not absolute, but logical.

Actually, we have covered this sometime back... do read this article, written by Mr Alan Maisey... [ link ]. I suggest bro Sepokal, you'll do likewise... do give it some thought, afterwhich, we can continue discussion if you like.

Bro Sepokal, as for the "Majapahit" / Sajen keris examples... do check it out [ here ].

[PenangsangII]

Bro AlamShah,

I read Alan's excellent article a few times since at least 2 years ago...and I think it's very intelligent observation, moreover, the writer is himself an empu. I'll go thru it again, and again.....

What I have to offer is the possibility of another origin, or maybe even parallel origin of the keris. Please consider this, people of Nusantara are strong followers of Sunni sect, but what's the deal with cleaning up (merawat) pusakas esp keris during 10 Muharram every year?

[A. G. Maisey]

Please Penangsang, one correction:- I am not and never have been an empu.

I am a person who has made a number of keris, and I have been taught how to do this by an empu.The fact that this man passed much of his knowledge to me does not make me an empu.

[rahman]

I do not want to be drawn to yet another old debate from another forum. If you could check again in the kampungnet thread that you had dumped to the bin, I believe you would understand what Sepokal (sorry for using your name again) had said about the possible Islamic origin of the keris.

I too do not wish to drag what transpired at KampungNet into this forum. But would I logically dump good evidence into the Garbage Bin?

What we had were similar assertions as found here, but no supporting evidence. I was willing to accept these as folk traditions, but sepokal had not divulged which region/state his informaiton had come from, so I cannot even make any reasonable classification.

Alam Shah, pamor that exist in most Javanese keris are based on made belief too. I guess, it will always be part and parcel of keris lovers to go through this "made belief" stories.

Methinks that's the crux of all that we have -- make believe. If you believe it is so, so will it be.

Let me leave it at that...

I guess we mere mortals are not worthy of the arcane knowledge of the Grand Masters.

David -- I always thought the keris was from Mars, and swords from Venus. We have aliens too here n Singapore -- both legal and illegal.

[HanaChu69]

Good day everyone,

I apologized if I have created the hassle for referencing but I find them useful. I believe some articles in the internet are not 100% true. As such, this forum may be of some help. Gone were those days where old generation relates tales of their ancestral history to passed down to the future generation? Everyone is so busy nowadays and I’m in that sorry situation right now. How I wish my late father kept a journal for me to get some insight.

Frankly, I like the visual information exchanged in the thread “Majapahit Revisited” between Ganjawulung and Pak Alan. I personally feel that factual evidence shown through books is much appreciated for I may not be able to source them here in Singapore.

Sepokal – After our email info sharing session on Malay Keris philosophy, I thought I could dig some info from you to share in this forum as well. But it is most unlikely possible now due to the above reasons. I hope you will continue your research on Malay Keris and their history. I will be honor to vet through your draft manuscript before publishing them. You will receive my utmost confidentiality upon the frank opinion given. Good luck on your journey in search of wisdom and truth, my friend!


Kind regards,
Hana

P.S - Penangsang, you, high school graduate?? You're jesting lah..