Cretan daggers

eftihis · 15th July 2007, 08:59 PM

Erlikhan, no need to tease your friend, national identity has nothing to do with each person ancestors, and if someone believes he is a Turk or a Greek i do not know if someone can oppose that.
So there is no dispute that cretan turks today have a pure turkish identity. But is good to know how this groop evolved. I will give the comments of a Turkish historian:

"The establishment of Islam was mainly the result of conversions. During the Venetian period, the island was devoid of an Orthodox Church hierarchy. The local Orthodox priests were subjected to the authority of Catholic bishops....

What is unique about Crete is the equation between colonization and the high rate of conversions to Islam...The limited colonization and the extensive Islamization of the island resulted in a rather hybrid population of muslims in faith but Cretan in terms of customs and language. In order to fully comprehend the "hatred" of the Orthodox population towards the Turcocretans and their longing for their land after they were forced to evacuate the island in the 20th century, one would have to examine the formative years, soon after the conquest of the island...Until recently, it was unknown that Ottoman documents including kadi records from Crete, Salonica, Kavala, Vodina and the islands were brought to Istanbul during the population exchange....When the Ottomans arrived in Crete, the Orthodox population of the island was devoid of an established Orthodox Church.... In Crete however, the rate of conversion is considered relatively high....the traditional policy of colonization of a conquered territory by Moslem settlers was not applied to Crete". Elif Bayraktar-THE IMPLEMENTATION OF OTTOMAN RELIGIOUS POLICIES IN CRETE 1645-1735: MEN OF FAITH AS ACTORS IN THE KADI COURT.

eftihis · 20th July 2007, 01:52 PM

Hallo, speaking on Cretan knifes, can somebody help me with this date?
I am pretty sure this is a late 19th century knife, but the date is much older?
Any ideas?

erlikhan · 22nd July 2007, 08:24 AM

Eftihis,sorry I just had oppurtunity to log into the forum after my last reply. I didnt know that source you copied for sure. Then it means Crete was really somehow different . As far as I understand the high rate of conversion was because of existing religious problems and instabilities,similar to the ones in Bosnia,causing bigger portion of formerly Christian Bosnian population convert to Islam and create Boshnak people.
The dating on the bichaq must be 1924 in Arabic numbers but Gregorian calender according to me.

rand · 1st August 2007, 07:13 AM

Interesting that the 1924 date coincides with the date of the population exchange. Maybe some type of rememberence?

rand

eftihis · 25th August 2007, 10:15 AM

Rand, i have no idea on that...
Meanwill what about the inscription and date on this one?

rand · 25th August 2007, 09:23 PM

Hey Eftihis,

Date looks like 1295 or 1878 (western year)

First number was easy....

The second number is a bit blurry.....

Third number my best guess...

Fourth number a piece of cake....

1295 X >.03= 38.85, round off to 39
1295-39 = 1256
1256 + 622 = 1878

Whats your opinion?

rand

20th July 2007, 01:52 PM	#2
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 511	date on a cretan knife Hallo, speaking on Cretan knifes, can somebody help me with this date? I am pretty sure this is a late 19th century knife, but the date is much older? Any ideas? Attached Images

1st August 2007, 07:13 AM	#4
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	1924 date Interesting that the 1924 date coincides with the date of the population exchange. Maybe some type of rememberence? rand

25th August 2007, 10:15 AM	#5
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 511	ottoman translation please Rand, i have no idea on that... Meanwill what about the inscription and date on this one? Attached Images

25th August 2007, 09:23 PM	#6
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Date Hey Eftihis, Date looks like 1295 or 1878 (western year) First number was easy.... The second number is a bit blurry..... Third number my best guess... Fourth number a piece of cake.... 1295 X >.03= 38.85, round off to 39 1295-39 = 1256 1256 + 622 = 1878 Whats your opinion? rand Last edited by rand; 25th August 2007 at 09:33 PM.

15th July 2007, 08:59 PM	#1
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 511	Erlikhan, no need to tease your friend, national identity has nothing to do with each person ancestors, and if someone believes he is a Turk or a Greek i do not know if someone can oppose that. So there is no dispute that cretan turks today have a pure turkish identity. But is good to know how this groop evolved. I will give the comments of a Turkish historian: "The establishment of Islam was mainly the result of conversions. During the Venetian period, the island was devoid of an Orthodox Church hierarchy. The local Orthodox priests were subjected to the authority of Catholic bishops.... What is unique about Crete is the equation between colonization and the high rate of conversions to Islam...The limited colonization and the extensive Islamization of the island resulted in a rather hybrid population of muslims in faith but Cretan in terms of customs and language. In order to fully comprehend the "hatred" of the Orthodox population towards the Turcocretans and their longing for their land after they were forced to evacuate the island in the 20th century, one would have to examine the formative years, soon after the conquest of the island...Until recently, it was unknown that Ottoman documents including kadi records from Crete, Salonica, Kavala, Vodina and the islands were brought to Istanbul during the population exchange....When the Ottomans arrived in Crete, the Orthodox population of the island was devoid of an established Orthodox Church.... In Crete however, the rate of conversion is considered relatively high....the traditional policy of colonization of a conquered territory by Moslem settlers was not applied to Crete". Elif Bayraktar-THE IMPLEMENTATION OF OTTOMAN RELIGIOUS POLICIES IN CRETE 1645-1735: MEN OF FAITH AS ACTORS IN THE KADI COURT.

22nd July 2007, 08:24 AM	#3
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Eftihis,sorry I just had oppurtunity to log into the forum after my last reply. I didnt know that source you copied for sure. Then it means Crete was really somehow different . As far as I understand the high rate of conversion was because of existing religious problems and instabilities,similar to the ones in Bosnia,causing bigger portion of formerly Christian Bosnian population convert to Islam and create Boshnak people. The dating on the bichaq must be 1924 in Arabic numbers but Gregorian calender according to me.