keris and spirit

PenangsangII · 10th July 2007, 12:15 PM

Dear Pak Raden & Kerislovers,

I cannot recollect exactly what my late grandfather told me about 20 years ago, but if I am not mistaken, Kiai Setan Kober had even number of loks, most probably 12 loks. But I never saw or heard dapur Setan Kober before. Perhaps other forumites have more information to offer?

Also, there is a very powerful "Ilmu Pengasih" attributed to Setan Kober

.

David · 10th July 2007, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Also, there is a very powerful "Ilmu Pengasih" attributed to Setan Kober

.

How best would you translate "Ilmu Pengasih"?

HanaChu69 · 10th July 2007, 05:26 PM

Greetings everyone,

It’s a joy being able to network and widen circle of keris collectors friends from around the globe. In addition, you will be able to gain valuable insights on both Malaysian and Indonesian kerises.

Usman – In your earlier posting, there was an indication that a spear spirit has influence not only on the beholder but also on the surrounding community. Can you elaborate in what way exactly?

Sepokal – Wa’alaikumsalam, thank you on your views from a Malay perspective. It’s not easy to be chosen as a successor of “pusaka” with terms and conditions apply. It involves heavy responsibility abiding and observing them. Do take good care of it, my friend.

Penangsang – I have to disagree with you on being at a disadvantage for having mixed parentage. It can be confusing but vice versa for me. In fact I’m blessed being able to understand two different Indonesian dialects and their culture (reading in progress). The remedy is to make positive adjustment and all will turn out fine.

Bram & Ganjawulung – Thank you for the clarification on “ruwat” and “sukerto”. I strongly discourage “larunging” a keris and rather find other alternative solution instead. I’m a go for green person as in “Save the Earth” and avoid pollution. On the other hand, I would like to know how to go about neutralizing them. Is there any other thread that link to this topic?

Pak Alan – Thanks for the referencing. I will check it out and revert on anything interesting.

David – “ilmu pengasih” is the art of attracting men/women (polite term used). I would very much love to see the keris especially with the name of spirit that has “kiai” and “setan” in them.

Best regards,
Hana

P.S - Pardon me for the many questions asked. I believe in the proverbs “He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever”.

A. G. Maisey · 10th July 2007, 10:00 PM

On the subject of getting rid of troublesome keris, and other wesi aji.

During my lifetime I have been given more than15 keris and tombak and other wesi aji by various people. About half of the items given were given because it was believed that they were a source of problems, the other half were given for various reasons, some because the owner did not want the trouble and responsibility of looking after it any longer, some to bond friendship, one little group of keris and tombak were given by a stranger acting on the directions of her dead husband who had visited her in a dream. In the cases of two of the keris given because it was believed that they were causing problems, after I accepted responsibility for these keris, the fortunes of their previous custodians improved remarkably.In one case the improvement was almost instantaneous. Whether or not it was the keris causing the problems remains open to question, but it is absolutely certain that the previous custodians of these keris believed that once they had relieved themselves of the problem wesi aji, they were also relieved of their problems.

ganjawulung · 11th July 2007, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

I cannot recollect exactly what my late grandfather told me about 20 years ago, but if I am not mistaken, Kiai Setan Kober had even number of loks, most probably 12 loks. But I never saw or heard dapur Setan Kober before. Perhaps other forumites have more information to offer?

Also, there is a very powerful "Ilmu Pengasih" attributed to Setan Kober

.

Dear Penangsang,
This is about the name of "setan kober". According to an interpretation (my friend, a lecturer in University of Indonesia), actually the name of Ario Penangsang's keris was misinterpreted. Commonly commited error in the past, people mentioned the Ario's keris as "setan kober". So what is in this name? Literally no reasonable meaning of it. "Setan" means satan, or devil. And "Kober" means "to have sufficient" time.

According to my friend's interpretation (he is still studying it), actually not "setan kober", but "sih tan ka uber" or in Indonesian language "kasih tak sampai" (unmaterialized love). Relating to the "unmaterialized love" of Ario Penangsang and the daughter of Sultan Tranggono. The passion of Ario at that time...

Ganjawulung

PenangsangII · 11th July 2007, 05:09 AM

Pak Ganja and other forumites,

The problem with oral tradition is that sometimes the original story and characters or even meaning are lost thru generations. Your lecturer friend indeed made sense, because until now I still dont understand the meaning of Setan Kober.

But there is another probable reason why Arya Penangsang had named his keris Setan Kober. It was said that he went to an empu to commission a powerful keris in anticipation of battle against the famous pusaka belonging to Jaka Tingkir - Kiai Plered. The keris was forged by the empu with the calling of all spirits of Tanah Jawa to reside in it thus the name Setan Kober.

ganjawulung · 11th July 2007, 06:11 AM

This is another interpretation, related to Ario Penangsang. According to Mr Bambang Harsrinuksmo, the accessory of Javanese bride, laces of jasmine around the bride's keris (see the picture), also related to Ario Penangsang legend.

In the folklore, according to Mr Bambang, Danang Sutawijaya from Pajang succeded to stab the side of Ario Penangsang with his spear Kiai Plered. And the intestines of Ario was hang out of the side. Ario was still upright on his horse, Gagak Rimang. Even, Ario could push Sutawijaya. In the critical situation, Ario wanted to stab Sutawijaya who no longer showed any movement. but unfortunately, the intestines of Ario was cut by his own keris. (See Setan Kober, Kyai -- Ensiklopedi Keris by Bambang Harsrinuksmo)

Sutawijaya, according to Bambang Harsrinuksmo, was very impressed with the heroism of Ario Penangsang. And Sutawijaya realised, he was "saved" by the good fortune. He then ordered all his descents to respect the heroism of Ario Penangsang. The laces of jasmine in every Javanese bride's keris, is only a symbol for such honor to Penangsang...

Ganjawulung

PenangsangII · 11th July 2007, 09:47 AM

Nice pics

No truer or more genuine compliment / mark of respect / admiration but from your enemy!!!

BTW, all the Tanah Jawa spirits combined still could not save Arya Penangsang from God's plan, and also from himself.....

HanaChu69 · 12th July 2007, 08:15 AM

Good day everyone,

Pak Alan – I hope you don’t mind me asking. Can I know what you did to the 15 troublesome pieces of keris and tombak? Did you allocate a special place for them? Did you neutralize them? I sure hope that they bring you good luck and not trouble.

Penangsang – Believe in fate. No matter how invincible you are. You will surely die one day.

Best regards,
Hana

A. G. Maisey · 12th July 2007, 09:52 AM

Hana, I did absolutely nothing other than to accept what I was given, and proceed to look after these pieces as I would any others. Some required no work except cleaning and oiling. Others required varying amounts of work. All were put into good condition and simply added to a particular drawer where I keep all wesi aji that is given to me.

No offerings, no neutralisation, no sleeping with them under my pillow, no consultations with wise men.

Nothing except giving them the care and respect they deserved.

They may have been troublesome to some other people, they have been no trouble at all to me.

10th July 2007, 12:15 PM	#1
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Kiai Setan Kober Dear Pak Raden & Kerislovers, I cannot recollect exactly what my late grandfather told me about 20 years ago, but if I am not mistaken, Kiai Setan Kober had even number of loks, most probably 12 loks. But I never saw or heard dapur Setan Kober before. Perhaps other forumites have more information to offer? Also, there is a very powerful "Ilmu Pengasih" attributed to Setan Kober .

10th July 2007, 05:26 PM	#3
HanaChu69 Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 29	Cool!! Greetings everyone, It’s a joy being able to network and widen circle of keris collectors friends from around the globe. In addition, you will be able to gain valuable insights on both Malaysian and Indonesian kerises. Usman – In your earlier posting, there was an indication that a spear spirit has influence not only on the beholder but also on the surrounding community. Can you elaborate in what way exactly? Sepokal – Wa’alaikumsalam, thank you on your views from a Malay perspective. It’s not easy to be chosen as a successor of “pusaka” with terms and conditions apply. It involves heavy responsibility abiding and observing them. Do take good care of it, my friend. Penangsang – I have to disagree with you on being at a disadvantage for having mixed parentage. It can be confusing but vice versa for me. In fact I’m blessed being able to understand two different Indonesian dialects and their culture (reading in progress). The remedy is to make positive adjustment and all will turn out fine. Bram & Ganjawulung – Thank you for the clarification on “ruwat” and “sukerto”. I strongly discourage “larunging” a keris and rather find other alternative solution instead. I’m a go for green person as in “Save the Earth” and avoid pollution. On the other hand, I would like to know how to go about neutralizing them. Is there any other thread that link to this topic? Pak Alan – Thanks for the referencing. I will check it out and revert on anything interesting. David – “ilmu pengasih” is the art of attracting men/women (polite term used). I would very much love to see the keris especially with the name of spirit that has “kiai” and “setan” in them. Best regards, Hana P.S - Pardon me for the many questions asked. I believe in the proverbs “He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever”.

11th July 2007, 06:11 AM	#7
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Respecting Ario Penangsang This is another interpretation, related to Ario Penangsang. According to Mr Bambang Harsrinuksmo, the accessory of Javanese bride, laces of jasmine around the bride's keris (see the picture), also related to Ario Penangsang legend. In the folklore, according to Mr Bambang, Danang Sutawijaya from Pajang succeded to stab the side of Ario Penangsang with his spear Kiai Plered. And the intestines of Ario was hang out of the side. Ario was still upright on his horse, Gagak Rimang. Even, Ario could push Sutawijaya. In the critical situation, Ario wanted to stab Sutawijaya who no longer showed any movement. but unfortunately, the intestines of Ario was cut by his own keris. (See Setan Kober, Kyai -- Ensiklopedi Keris by Bambang Harsrinuksmo) Sutawijaya, according to Bambang Harsrinuksmo, was very impressed with the heroism of Ario Penangsang. And Sutawijaya realised, he was "saved" by the good fortune. He then ordered all his descents to respect the heroism of Ario Penangsang. The laces of jasmine in every Javanese bride's keris, is only a symbol for such honor to Penangsang... Ganjawulung Attached Images

10th July 2007, 10:00 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,013	On the subject of getting rid of troublesome keris, and other wesi aji. During my lifetime I have been given more than15 keris and tombak and other wesi aji by various people. About half of the items given were given because it was believed that they were a source of problems, the other half were given for various reasons, some because the owner did not want the trouble and responsibility of looking after it any longer, some to bond friendship, one little group of keris and tombak were given by a stranger acting on the directions of her dead husband who had visited her in a dream. In the cases of two of the keris given because it was believed that they were causing problems, after I accepted responsibility for these keris, the fortunes of their previous custodians improved remarkably.In one case the improvement was almost instantaneous. Whether or not it was the keris causing the problems remains open to question, but it is absolutely certain that the previous custodians of these keris believed that once they had relieved themselves of the problem wesi aji, they were also relieved of their problems.

11th July 2007, 05:09 AM	#6
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Pak Ganja and other forumites, The problem with oral tradition is that sometimes the original story and characters or even meaning are lost thru generations. Your lecturer friend indeed made sense, because until now I still dont understand the meaning of Setan Kober. But there is another probable reason why Arya Penangsang had named his keris Setan Kober. It was said that he went to an empu to commission a powerful keris in anticipation of battle against the famous pusaka belonging to Jaka Tingkir - Kiai Plered. The keris was forged by the empu with the calling of all spirits of Tanah Jawa to reside in it thus the name Setan Kober.

11th July 2007, 09:47 AM	#8
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Nice pics No truer or more genuine compliment / mark of respect / admiration but from your enemy!!! BTW, all the Tanah Jawa spirits combined still could not save Arya Penangsang from God's plan, and also from himself.....

12th July 2007, 08:15 AM	#9
HanaChu69 Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 29	Good day everyone, Pak Alan – I hope you don’t mind me asking. Can I know what you did to the 15 troublesome pieces of keris and tombak? Did you allocate a special place for them? Did you neutralize them? I sure hope that they bring you good luck and not trouble. Penangsang – Believe in fate. No matter how invincible you are. You will surely die one day. Best regards, Hana

12th July 2007, 09:52 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,013	Hana, I did absolutely nothing other than to accept what I was given, and proceed to look after these pieces as I would any others. Some required no work except cleaning and oiling. Others required varying amounts of work. All were put into good condition and simply added to a particular drawer where I keep all wesi aji that is given to me. No offerings, no neutralisation, no sleeping with them under my pillow, no consultations with wise men. Nothing except giving them the care and respect they deserved. They may have been troublesome to some other people, they have been no trouble at all to me.