keris and spirit

[David]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

If a Tosan Aji is commissioned by a customer, and forged accordingly by the empu with the intention of the owner's prosperity, is used to kill someone for whatever reason, does it affect the tuah of the keris?

I don't think anyone can properly answer this question other than to say that it if far too vague to be answerable. You can't really say "for whatever reason" because that reason may well factor in to the answer to the question. Perhaps the keris was used in the protection of the owner's prosperity...who knows. What is permissable may well be between the empu and the owner...and God.

[PenangsangII]

Sorry David, my question was very vague. Let me rephrase it more properly by giving an example.

A merchant commissioned a keris with the intention to enhance his status & prosperity. One day, a thief broke into his house, and the merchant had to defend his belongings by fighting off the intruder using his "prosperity keris". In the ensuing fight, the thief was stabbed & killed.

Now that the keris had tasted blood which is far from the intended purpose of prosperity talisman, would the keris still have that particular talismanic value?

I am asking you this because, a man in a village of my hometown, had to use his keris when a monitor lizzard intruded into his chicken coop & stealing / killing / eating his chickens. Out of anger, and without any other weapons at that time, he used his keris to stab dead the lizzard. Consequently, a week later he fell ill and became insane. As the modern medicine had no answer to his illness, the family members took him to see a bomoh / dukun / shaman. It was diagnosed by the traditional healer that the genie khadam within the keris had caused the illness, as the keris was meant to be used as personal protection against any unseen forces. So by stabbing the monitor lizzard, the man had somewhat insulted his own keris and of course the being inside

[Raden Usman Djogja]

Gonjo, yes, you are right. Ideally, it must be like what you said.

Penangsang, I dont have any exact answer for your case. It is very unique and specific. However, I have ever heard about "sukerto" and "ruwat". These two words are very familiar amongst pupet perfomance lovers. So, lets hope that someone like Kiai Carita, Alan or Gonjo is eager to give comments.

warm salam,

Usman

[HanaChu69]

Greetings everyone,

I’m procrastinating on my replies but after much prompting I’ve decided to give my half cents worth of opinion. Do apologize if they don’t appeal to some for the way I perceive things may be peculiar and different from others.

Bram – The “olah rasa” and “gerak nurani” seems familiar but could you elaborate. If you’re hesitant please do email me at hana_chu69@yahoo.com.sg to double confirm on my understanding.

Pak Alan – Hmm..I’m trying to simplify and you’re trying to confuse ..Anyway, those who are able to contextualize, relate and connect to your level of thinking (same frequency) will definitely benefit. I like the saying on “offered as it is with a loving heart"”. My interpretation of likeable=loving heart=sincerity. I find “mental attitude” interesting and it may take you a lifetime to get it right.

Penangsang – I sympathizes with the man who become insane. It’s wise to source the origin of the keris and if it’s a Malay or Indonesian keris. For a Malay keris, the empu will usually recite (zikir) verses from the Holy Quran and khadam a Muslim. Of course, he will be angry if you go against his beliefs and principles. It is wise to get a person who is able to communicate with keris as in “negotiate” or maybe there are other factors involved. Pray and hope that he will recover soon.

Usman – I maybe half Javanese but I still need to read up on Javanese culture, customs and rituals. Is it possible for you to elaborate definition on “sukerto" and "ruwat"? Can we apply them to keris and other pusaka items as well?

Sincerely,
Hana

[A. G. Maisey]

Hana, I'm sorry if what I have written is causing any confusion. I did spend a little time trying to make this idea as simple as I possibly could, so that there would be no confusion.The proposition is really simplicity itself. Broken down to the elemental all it means is that God is in all things, and an offering to any sekti thing that you honour is an offering to God. Because God is above pettiness, the physical nature of the offering is unimportant, the attitude of the person making the offering is all important. Offer only a prayer with sincerity in your heart , and that is sufficient. The function of ritual is not to honour God, but to bring discipline to the mind of man, so his mind is in the correct state to honour his God.

[Montino Bourbon]

You put it really well, Mr Maisey.

[HanaChu69]

Pak Alan, appreciate that you are trying your best to place the correct words and use the most simplified for all to relate. I really don’t mean to be harsh or being disrespectful and now I'm feeling bad..

Thank you so much for the above clarifications. Well said, everyone can now have a better understanding as in tuning to the same frequency…

[Raden Usman Djogja]

Originally Posted by HanaChu69

Greetings everyone,

Usman – I maybe half Javanese but I still need to read up on Javanese culture, customs and rituals. Is it possible for you to elaborate definition on “sukerto" and "ruwat"? Can we apply them to keris and other pusaka items as well?

Sincerely,
Hana

Hana,

I may not have sufficient information about this matter. So I am afraid if I try to explain it to you, it can confuse. However, since none of us speak about "Sukerto" and "Ruwat" but you and me, I will try to tell what I know about.

Actually, I could email personally you. But rather than PM, allow me to respond it through this thread. Why, by informing openly, I hope whenever my explanation is not correct, any kerislover can interupt it and give better explanation. It is important. Why? Because too many cases I found in the keris world, the first information they get, it is believed as the truth. Whenever they recieve better/true information latter, they tend move uneasily from the first stand. So, hopefully, don't hold my statement which will be the first information you receive about "sukerto" and "ruwat" as the truth.

I will focus directly on "sukerto" and "ruwat" for goods (not for human). Sukerto, perhaps, is defect product because of wrong-using. For instance, the locomotive which hit somebody till causing his death. Then, that locomotive is considered as "sukerto good". For a simple good, if it is considered as a sukerto good, then the owner can simply throw it away (to the sea... the term of throwing away is "larung). But how...if a sukerto good is a locomotif which need abundant investment. Too valuable. To neutralize the bad influence of a "sukerto" good is by "ruwat" procession. After "ruwat"ed, it is hoped that the locomotive will be "normal" again without any "bad" influence to its users.

As Alan said, the most important of "ruwat" procession is to dicipline our mind that everything comes from the Singularity and will come back to the Singularity, including "bad" influence. "Bad" depends on our point of view and interest.

Perhaps, this explanation is also as a respond of Penangsang's question. But rather than as an answer, consider it as exchange views to open further discussion.

Actually, I still hope Kiai Carita's enlightment since we know he is a dalang with pangkur gedong kuning song.

warm regards,
Usman

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Raden Usman Djogja

Hana,

Actually, I still hope Kiai Carita's enlightment since we know he is a dalang with pangkur gedong kuning song.

warm regards,
Usman

Could you translate please ?

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by HanaChu69

Usman – I maybe half Javanese but I still need to read up on Javanese culture, customs and rituals. Is it possible for you to elaborate definition on “sukerto" and "ruwat"? Can we apply them to keris and other pusaka items as well?

I would help a little bit to Mr Usman, if you don't mind. I don't think you can apply "sukerta" and "ruwat" to kerises or other pusaka items. Actually the two Javanese terms are very difficult to explain in other language.

Any human with "sukerta" position, must be "diruwat" (to be 'ruwatted', sorry for this Javanese English). You are "manusia" (human) sukerta, it means that you are born with an anomality position -- such as you are the only son or the only daughter, you were born 'in the middle of the different sexes', male-female-male, or female-male-female -- and also you are 'sukerta' if you've done such 'taboo' things according to Javanese community such as: throwing garbage from the window, or not intentionally let a "dandang" fall. Dandang is a very special form of rice-pan in Java. And many more "sukerta" kriteria...

So, if you are "manusia sukerta" in traditional Java community, then you need to be 'ruwatted'... And the ritual ceremony of "ruwatan" must be conducted by a "true dhalang" or "true wayang puppeteer" that called as "Dhalang Kandha Buwana" (I don't have the English translation -- not literally -- for this term of dhalang).

So, the "manusia sukerta" must be "ruwatted" by the true dhalang, in order to free him or her from the target of Bethara Kala or gods of Kala (time and death). In the past time, according to the past trace of Candi Sukuh inscription near Mount Lawu in Surakarta, the "manusia sukerta" must be poured too, with special water called "pawitra" or water from a holy bathing-place...

Ganjawulung

[Raden Usman Djogja]

Rick,

forgive me not translating "a dalang with pangkur gedhong kuning song". let me try to translate it " a puppeteer (puppet player) who sing a song yellow manson pangkur". Sorry, still I cannot translate "pangkur" into english. In jawa, songs are divided into several classification. Pangkur is a class of Jawanese song(s). Am I right, friends?


Gonjo,

thank you for explaining "ruwat" and "sukerto" that in your explanation it cannot applied for keris or "goods". yes, I got the same information as you said from my Jawanese teachers when I was in high schools (they were remarkable teachers). Ritual of ruwat and term of sukerto are for human. So, ruwatan applied for goods which people praticing it in my village is not the standard ruwat (pakem). Perhaps, it is a part of human innovation/modification. Hope Hanachu will follow the standard understanding of ruwat and sukerto as you mentioned.


Penangsang,

According to your inquiry how if a certain is used to kill, it is hard to answer. Perhaps, the simple way is to "larung" (throw away) that keris to the ocean or a junction of rivers. However, how is that keris too important for its master? The most prominent heirloom of Djokjakarta sultanate, Kiai Plered, was used to kill Aria Penangsang by Senopati, to hurt Ronggo Keniten by Senopati too, to kill Pragolopati the Second by the Great Sultan's warrior (grandson of Senopati), to kill Suronoto by Prince Hangabehi. However, till nowadays, Kiai Plered is still has important place in Djokjakarta Sultanate. Perhaps, in term of heirlooms of Djokjakarta Sultanate, Kiai Plered is the most important.What is your opinion about this Kiai Plered story?

warm salam
Usman

[sepokal]

Assalamualaikum and Salam Bahagia to forumers,

Just thought that I'll give some thoughts about this issue. I guess it is only right for me to reply (beradab) to a my friend Penangsang when he did mention my name regarding this.

First and foremost, I would like to explain that my explaination is solely based on malay perspective regarding keris. There are differences between Malay and Javanese point of views regarding keris so hence, my apologies for any wrong, coming from my views regarding this issue.

Penangsang and fellow forumers, the Malays believe, first and foremost, a keris is a weapon. It's function, is more for killing, and never are they more interested in knowing the mystical aspect of the keris first, That comes later. They are more concern, on the practicality side of the weapon in which, how it feels like when they dance the silat dance with the keris and also, when called upon to use it, how the keris behaves in one's grip. That, in itself, does not mean that they deny the mystical side of the keris, but rather, consider the mystical side of it, as secondary to it's function as a weapon. A Malay keris that has killed many a men (or women) in trying to defend it's owner's life and that of family honour, should be considered as a weapon that has done great service to it's owner. Hence, it should never be thrown, rather, it should be kept well and appreciate for it's loyalty towards it's owner. My pusaka have killed many during the Dutch occupation. It was kept by my grandmother and none of her sons and daugthers knew of this (including my father). I kept receiving dreams of this weapons being used by my great great great grandfather who fought to defend the family honour and in those dreams, I dreamt and saw many people being killed by this pusaka of mine. One day, my grandmother (for reasons I don't know why), was very restless and requested my uncle to bring her to Kuala Lumpur, from Singapore. She is very old, but due to her request, she was brought to my house. When she came to my house, I enquired from her, whether she has any pusaka from my greatgrandfather (this pusaka has been in my family since 1700 ++) She immediately says, yes, she do have one. My uncles and aunties were shocked at this revelation. They asked her, why did she says no when they enquired about the pusaka, years ago. She told them that the pusaka is not meant for them, but for me. She told them, the pusaka can never be pulled out from the sarung except for the one that was given the right to pulled it out. I asked her for the pusaka and told her that I was asked to keep it. She readily accept my request, Alhamdulillah. Upon receiving it, several weeks later, I did not pull it out of the sheath yet because my inner instinct told me not to. My dad tried to pull it out of the sheath, followed by my uncles and aunties, but none of them was able to pull it out. The next morning, after my sholat suboh, my instinct told me to pull it out. I pulled it out in one pull. I smell the blade, my god, it smelt bad. I think, I did smell blood and you can see traces of dark spots that might suggest blood. It was a nice blade and it needs some TLC (Tender, luv and care) and that is exactly what I did. It took lots of time and concentration from me to clean it. Alhamdulillah, it was all worth it. I did try to hold it and my God, it felt soo good and appropriately balance in my hand. When I remember back those times when I had those dreams, then I realise how it was used to protect my great great great great grandfather from being killed by the dutch. How can one throw that away when it was, at one time, provide it services for the safety of my family.

Many people believe that once a keris or badek etc, have killed before, then those weapons are bad luck. It is sad that those thoughts are well implanted in most malays nowadays, when at one time, it was never an issue because, keris has always been, first and foremost, a weapon, and never do the malay worries regarding it's luck, when it has tasted blood and "ate" meat.

Regards,
Sepokal toh putih

p.s
penangsang, setakat itu sahajalah pendapat saya yang tak seberapa ini.

[Kiai Carita]

Originally Posted by Raden Usman Djogja

Rick,
Gonjo,

thank you for explaining "ruwat" and "sukerto" that in your explanation it cannot applied for keris or "goods". yes, I got the same information as you said from my Jawanese teachers when I was in high schools (they were remarkable teachers). Ritual of ruwat and term of sukerto are for human. So, ruwatan applied for goods which people praticing it in my village is not the standard ruwat (pakem). Perhaps, it is a part of human innovation/modification. Hope Hanachu will follow the standard understanding of ruwat and sukerto as you mentioned.


Penangsang,

According to your inquiry how if a certain is used to kill, it is hard to answer. Perhaps, the simple way is to "larung" (throw away) that keris to the ocean or a junction of rivers. However, how is that keris too important for its master? The most prominent heirloom of Djokjakarta sultanate, Kiai Plered, was used to kill Aria Penangsang by Senopati, to hurt Ronggo Keniten by Senopati too, to kill Pragolopati the Second by the Great Sultan's warrior (grandson of Senopati), to kill Suronoto by Prince Hangabehi. However, till nowadays, Kiai Plered is still has important place in Djokjakarta Sultanate. Perhaps, in term of heirlooms of Djokjakarta Sultanate, Kiai Plered is the most important.What is your opinion about this Kiai Plered story?

warm salam
Usman

Dear all, in Jawa, ruwatan and sukerta apply to people. Check http://www.joglosemar.co.id/ruwatan.html there is a detailed naration of ruwatan there. You must be a senior dalang, with grandchildren, before you can become a dalang ruwat. Currently the term ruwatan has also often been used in terms of the Nation.

A keris (or tombak) that has been used to kill is not considered bad unless it was used to kill some one you would rather have not been killed. Is Kiai Plered a good pusaka? Yes, for Yogya, but not for its victims.

One should not use a keris to kill a lizard though especially if it is only a biawak stealing chickens. If a person is unhappy with a keris (s)he should either sell it or give it away but never larung it into the sea. To larung a keris is a Jawa tradition but nowadays it should be considered as destroying archeological artefacts and littering.

If you look at the pusaka of the Yogya kraton, you will find that many pusaka are not really of extraordinary quality. Kiai Plered is a common soldier's spear, designed as a weapon and became a pusaka later, after succesfully serving Senopati in his fights to power. There is even a very wierd Kiai Vandeel which is not a tosan aji but rather a small banner presented by the Dutch to a Sultan in the past. All the old European carriages in the Kraton are also venerated as Kiai thisandthat. These become pusaka by the virtue of being used and owned by kings.


Warm salaams,
Bram