Heavy 18th c. European sword

ariel · 1st July 2007, 03:29 AM

The engraving of the double-headed eagle on the sword is quite careless; likely it was done at the request of the owner and by a not very skilled smith.
I vote for Austro- Hungarian. The curliqued filling of the body somehow does not look Russian to me. Strangely, it reminds me of Greek or Balkan blade engravings ( I am having a cold, and a mix of fever and over-the-counter concoctions may explain my hallucinations

)

Jim McDougall · 1st July 2007, 05:45 AM

Thanks very much for the very colorful input guys!!! Especially Ariels hallucinations!!

I think everybodys observations all sound extremely plausible, and I very much appreciate the detail in noting the variations applied to these heraldic eagles.

It seems often these military blades have interestingly applied cyphers and motif on the blades, often loosely applied interpretations of regalia and heraldic devices. With the obvious degree of license seen with such decoration, it would be difficult to assign the sabre to a particular country with any certainty. Given the commercial enterprise of Solingen, this sabre might have found its way to any of the powers suggested, and the loosely applied eagle engraved on the blade. Typologically, it remains in my opinion, one of the Prussian sabres as suggested.

All best regards,
Jim

erlikhan · 1st July 2007, 08:29 PM

Thanks for all comments. About the coat of the arms, please note that the same figure exists on the other face of the blade too. An expert has said that it was not chiselled, but etched with acid work, but so well done that it looks almost as good as chiselling. That is what he says after checking with magnifier.. At the moment,the sword is in his workshop for hilt restoration,so I can't check if the two coat of arms are exactly each other's copy. If it is correct, perhaps shows that it was done in factory included in the contract, or many swords were armory serial etched after delivery from the factory.
I found a Blucher sword's pictures. Here is the link. http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/ad...hp?itemID=5972 . The blade looks almost same, but hilt and hand guard of my swords look more crude and primitive. The one at the website has machine stamped marks, while mine has only a crudely -but certainly not newly- hand carved "Nr:50" or something like that on its scabbard. Could samples of a single model differ so?

Jim McDougall · 2nd July 2007, 05:05 AM

Hi Erlikhan,
Thank you for the link to the Blucher sabre that you included. In looking at the actual form, it is clear that these had distinctly different elements in the langet and the quillon. One thing about the langets on yours is the elongated rectangle shape that was key in the 1788 sabres in England as well as in Germany. The grip shape, langets and the scabbard without drag may suggest this to be either an early version of the sabre that became the M1811 Blucher sabre, or of course, quite possibly one that was produced in either Austria or Hungary. I think a look at Wagners "Cut and Thrust Weapons" might reveal more.

In any case, this seems a sound example of a turn of the century cavalry sabre from Europe, and beautifully 'unrestored'

I like these fighting weapons left pretty much as is, aside from checking any live rust etc.

All the best,
Jim

1st July 2007, 03:29 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The engraving of the double-headed eagle on the sword is quite careless; likely it was done at the request of the owner and by a not very skilled smith. I vote for Austro- Hungarian. The curliqued filling of the body somehow does not look Russian to me. Strangely, it reminds me of Greek or Balkan blade engravings ( I am having a cold, and a mix of fever and over-the-counter concoctions may explain my hallucinations )

1st July 2007, 05:45 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	Thanks very much for the very colorful input guys!!! Especially Ariels hallucinations!! I think everybodys observations all sound extremely plausible, and I very much appreciate the detail in noting the variations applied to these heraldic eagles. It seems often these military blades have interestingly applied cyphers and motif on the blades, often loosely applied interpretations of regalia and heraldic devices. With the obvious degree of license seen with such decoration, it would be difficult to assign the sabre to a particular country with any certainty. Given the commercial enterprise of Solingen, this sabre might have found its way to any of the powers suggested, and the loosely applied eagle engraved on the blade. Typologically, it remains in my opinion, one of the Prussian sabres as suggested. All best regards, Jim

1st July 2007, 08:29 PM	#3
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Thanks for all comments. About the coat of the arms, please note that the same figure exists on the other face of the blade too. An expert has said that it was not chiselled, but etched with acid work, but so well done that it looks almost as good as chiselling. That is what he says after checking with magnifier.. At the moment,the sword is in his workshop for hilt restoration,so I can't check if the two coat of arms are exactly each other's copy. If it is correct, perhaps shows that it was done in factory included in the contract, or many swords were armory serial etched after delivery from the factory. I found a Blucher sword's pictures. Here is the link. http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/ad...hp?itemID=5972 . The blade looks almost same, but hilt and hand guard of my swords look more crude and primitive. The one at the website has machine stamped marks, while mine has only a crudely -but certainly not newly- hand carved "Nr:50" or something like that on its scabbard. Could samples of a single model differ so?

2nd July 2007, 05:05 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	Hi Erlikhan, Thank you for the link to the Blucher sabre that you included. In looking at the actual form, it is clear that these had distinctly different elements in the langet and the quillon. One thing about the langets on yours is the elongated rectangle shape that was key in the 1788 sabres in England as well as in Germany. The grip shape, langets and the scabbard without drag may suggest this to be either an early version of the sabre that became the M1811 Blucher sabre, or of course, quite possibly one that was produced in either Austria or Hungary. I think a look at Wagners "Cut and Thrust Weapons" might reveal more. In any case, this seems a sound example of a turn of the century cavalry sabre from Europe, and beautifully 'unrestored' I like these fighting weapons left pretty much as is, aside from checking any live rust etc. All the best, Jim