keris and spirit

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

A few days ago Kiai Carito offered an opinion on the nature of a suitable offering to a sekti object.

Perhaps we could consider this :-

if we believe that there is some essence in a sekti object, be it a keris,or be it something else, is it not so that this essence is not separate from the universal essence?

is not this universal essence indestructible and eternal, and thus indivisible from the singularity which we conceptualise as "God"?

that which is great, is also small, the essence that we may believe is in our sekti object is not separate from, but is a part of the singularity.

in the making of an offering, it is not the material elements of the offering that are important---these are only present to calm our own imperfections and to assist our own weak and undisciplined thoughts along the path of devotion.

it is the mental attitude that is of greatest importance in any offering to any sekti object.

in the Gita the Lord said:- "Whoever offers a leaf, a flower, a fruit or even water with devotion, that will I accept, offered as it is with a loving heart".

in an offering to a sekti object, we are offering to an element of the singularity that we believe has entered into that object, thus we are offering to our individual conception of "God".

a flower, or a leaf offered with the right mental attitude is as valuable as any complex ritual.

but to learn the right mental attitude is perhaps the work of a lifetime.

or several.

Brilliant...

[Raden Usman Djogja]

so whenever the holder reachs to the essence of singularity, the mission of keris is accomplished. Added by one imaginer curve, the curves of keris is already even. to the holder, no need a keris anymore, even no need everything as a medium in his search. to the keris, its destiny will be decided then.

[Raden Usman Djogja]

dear all Kerislovers,

Perhaps, the last part of our discussion here is on the level of philosophy. Trully, it gives me a genuine enlightment during my study of wesi-aji (valuable steel/iron).

As a car. Perhaps, from the philosophical point of view, the usage of car is to make a journey faster, easier and more confortable. By having a good understanding in philosophical aspects, it does not mean automatically we can use it correctly. As if a driver, to be a good driver, some other abilities are needed.

I do hope all of us may come down to the level of practice (lower than philosophy)... some areas like "how to use a car" instead of "the usage of car". In other thread, a part of ancient book uploaded by Gonjo, there is interesting statement, "If mr so and so holds/uses keris made by empu such and such with "his purity of heart and mind", the remarkable power will emerge from him & his keris. Some questions rise after reading that thread such as... whether there is a standard of procedure to use/operate (technically) of keris?

May all kerislovers contribute this discussion with your knowledges and experiences... thanks in advance.

warm regards,
Usmen

[PenangsangII]

Dear Pak Raden,

Awesome discussion, but I have a question....

If a Tosan Aji is commissioned by a customer, and forged accordingly by the empu with the intention of the owner's prosperity, is used to kill someone for whatever reason, does it affect the tuah of the keris? Will it render the keris useless? If so, how do we regain the tuah? Thanks in advance.

[David]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

If a Tosan Aji is commissioned by a customer, and forged accordingly by the empu with the intention of the owner's prosperity, is used to kill someone for whatever reason, does it affect the tuah of the keris?

I don't think anyone can properly answer this question other than to say that it if far too vague to be answerable. You can't really say "for whatever reason" because that reason may well factor in to the answer to the question. Perhaps the keris was used in the protection of the owner's prosperity...who knows. What is permissable may well be between the empu and the owner...and God.

[PenangsangII]

Sorry David, my question was very vague. Let me rephrase it more properly by giving an example.

A merchant commissioned a keris with the intention to enhance his status & prosperity. One day, a thief broke into his house, and the merchant had to defend his belongings by fighting off the intruder using his "prosperity keris". In the ensuing fight, the thief was stabbed & killed.

Now that the keris had tasted blood which is far from the intended purpose of prosperity talisman, would the keris still have that particular talismanic value?

I am asking you this because, a man in a village of my hometown, had to use his keris when a monitor lizzard intruded into his chicken coop & stealing / killing / eating his chickens. Out of anger, and without any other weapons at that time, he used his keris to stab dead the lizzard. Consequently, a week later he fell ill and became insane. As the modern medicine had no answer to his illness, the family members took him to see a bomoh / dukun / shaman. It was diagnosed by the traditional healer that the genie khadam within the keris had caused the illness, as the keris was meant to be used as personal protection against any unseen forces. So by stabbing the monitor lizzard, the man had somewhat insulted his own keris and of course the being inside

[Raden Usman Djogja]

Gonjo, yes, you are right. Ideally, it must be like what you said.

Penangsang, I dont have any exact answer for your case. It is very unique and specific. However, I have ever heard about "sukerto" and "ruwat". These two words are very familiar amongst pupet perfomance lovers. So, lets hope that someone like Kiai Carita, Alan or Gonjo is eager to give comments.

warm salam,

Usman

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Raden Usman Djogja

I do hope all of us may come down to the level of practice (lower than philosophy)... some areas like "how to use a car" instead of "the usage of car". In other thread, a part of ancient book uploaded by Gonjo, there is interesting statement, "If mr so and so holds/uses keris made by empu such and such with "his purity of heart and mind", the remarkable power will emerge from him & his keris. Some questions rise after reading that thread such as... whether there is a standard of procedure to use/operate (technically) of keris?

Yes Raden, to manage of "how to use a car" properly, of course it is not worse if people also manage to know "the usage of car", to know the detail of your car, the machine, the weakness of the type of your car's machine...

Ganjawulung